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jaminjamesp
Member
Definitely have my eye on it!
Getting feedback on a project that the strings should sound more real, advice? (examples included)
- Thread starter jaminjamesp
- Start date
Definitely have my eye on it!
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jaminjamesp
Member
Thank you! That's quite appreciated. I honestly don't play piano (outside of chording). I hear something in my head and it takes me a long while to figure out how to make my fingers do it. I played every instrument/sample library on these, but truthfully the only thing I can play with any degree of confidence (and still not a lot) is guitar... which barely is even used at all on these tracks. It was a lot of trial and error and a lot of editing. And a lot of frustration, but it's been super fun. And the comments here are really making me rethink my string arrangements. Unfortunately it's too late for this project to change arrangements, and thats okay because the arrangements are what they wanted. They wanted strings to be a layer to support. Someone used the analogy of a lazy river in one of their comments. Which actually made me smile because that was one of the descriptors that was used to describe the feel they wanted. I think the issues right now are in the mix, and possibly layering in some solo strings. Think I may need to spring for CSSS.
ranaprathap
Active Member
Loved the vibe of these bits. I am happy with the way strings are sounding in this. But my opinion doesn't matter.
May be you need to ask him specifically what he means when he say "need to sound more real". Ask him if he needs more dynamics or a different arrangement, or if he wants to hear the strings louder in the mix.
I don't think you have too much reverb in the strings, considering these are used in an ambient situations.
But my hunch is your easiest way out will be to add a line of real violin on top.
Please let me know how it goes.
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jaminjamesp
Member
I think you’re correct about the real violin on top. I was thinking about writing an email asking for a bit more budget to accomplish this, when I realized that like an idiot I’ve been ignoring the most obvious solution in front of my face. My dad recently retired from his gig with the philharmonic when he moved cities to be with his new wife. They’re going to be in town next weekend, so I’ll have him bring his violin and get him in the studio.
Now I’m wondering if he could call a few of his old section partners as well. Anyone know if violinists work for a 6 pack and pizza? Craft micro-brews, obviously. I’ve got zero budget left on this.
ranaprathap
Active Member
Have you checked https://yourstringsattached.com/ suggested by GPnicolett ? I checked their website and they look affordable and sound good.
JohnG
Senior Member
Even one violin will help enormously. If you want it to blend with what you have, situate the mic about as far away as you can possibly get from the player. Do maybe three passes: one normal but with very little vib, one tremolo, one with mute. If you have the time, one more with mute and tremolo.
If you have even more time, have him double the part an octave down as well.
I think the sound you have going on is very cool and M83-ish, but I agree with the previous commentators that it may not be the strings that are the issue. Nevertheless, the very washy pads with lots of verb / delay on them that surround the strings may be generating the angst about the strings themselves. I hasten to add that I am not advocating changing a thing about your arrangement -- it would wreck the vibe you've created. But a single player will make a difference.
If you want to go totally nuts, you could ask your dad to improvise a bit.
Alex Fraser
Requires ☕️
I think you could get most of the way by:
- Removing or thinning out the pad sounds, especially in the lower mids range. Make more room for the cellos and bass parts, if you have them.
- Modulate the strings like your life depends on it. Expresson, dynamics, vibrato. Your arrangement is lovely (imo) but the string parts are crying out for some serious CC abuse.
- A spot of portamento? Not everyone likes it, but it's an aural "cue" that the strings could be real.
- More movement/counter melody in the lower string parts whilst the higher parts are sitting on long notes.
JohnG
Senior Member
I understand why you are saying this Alex, but I fear it will ruin what he has. The whole vibe of it is the washiness.
Desire Inspires
To the stars through desire....
Man, don’t change the strings. Just increase the BPM by 5, tone down the reverb a little, make the track louder and re-submit.
You don’t have to try to be some string genius. The supe isn’t so why bother? The changes I suggested will take about 5 minutes to do.
If they work, you’re golden. If not, who cares? Always find the easiest way to make changes to make YOUR life easier. Nobody is going to care of you get stressed out, so don’t get stressed out. Make a few quick changes and turn it in right before the deadline.
Take a chance! Balls > brains.
You don’t have to try to be some string genius. The supe isn’t so why bother? The changes I suggested will take about 5 minutes to do.
If they work, you’re golden. If not, who cares? Always find the easiest way to make changes to make YOUR life easier. Nobody is going to care of you get stressed out, so don’t get stressed out. Make a few quick changes and turn it in right before the deadline.
Take a chance! Balls > brains.
"Music Supervisor?"
THAT sounds the same as "Playground Attendant" in relative termology.
Just HOW muck "experience" does this "Music Supervisor" HAVE with music, in the FIRST PLACE?
I mean, in terms of movies a LOT of people can be listed as "Executive DESE, DEM, DOSE" or whatever, as far as the "producing part" goes.
Which means I am NEVER impressed with Steven Spielberg listed as an "Executive Producer" because I damn well KNOW, he is doing nothing more than "lending his name"
AND, shining a seat with his ass.
And also, look back on Spielberg's most recent pictures.
HE is no longer the "hungry person" who made JAWS and E.T-HE is just FAT and FULL of himself, which means he is no longer motivated to do anything else, but retire, which he SHOULD!
markleake
Relapsed Sale Addict
Another option is to EQ the strings to bring out the higher frequencies.
CSS tend to be on the darker side tonally for strings, and can hide a bit in the mix because of that. Just add some EQ to the whole CSS section to lift the highs. It may mess up your overall mix balance though.
CSS tend to be on the darker side tonally for strings, and can hide a bit in the mix because of that. Just add some EQ to the whole CSS section to lift the highs. It may mess up your overall mix balance though.
Saxer
Senior Member
I think it's a question of arrangement. In my experience sustained strings won't work together with pads in the same range (exept those textural Eno pads). If you want to keep the analog pad parts (what makes sense when this is your unique feature) I would write the strings around them. Either a kind of break where everything stops and the strings come in (and everybody so: oh, ah, the strings!) and after that let the synths dominate again. Or write string lines above the pads. Just a soaring violins counterpoint melody. Or let the strings do some rhythmic part.
markleake
Relapsed Sale Addict
Easy, easy.... just because someone is called a music supervisor doesn't mean it's the end of the world as we know it.
Edit: stupid auto-correct.
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Mihkel Zilmer
Senior Member
Very well put. I completely agree. Let those elements do their own thing, try and keep a bit more separation between the synths and the strings. Both will benefit from it, and in that scenario your string lines could be a bit more mobile which would draw more attention to them at times.
Jimmy Hellfire
Senior Member
Why do composer people love to demonstrate their obsequiousness so much? Really lame.
VinRice
... i am a robot ... viruses have no effect ...
Some great suggestions here (apart from the idiots obviously). I think the general consensus is correct. Layering synth pads with strings will always just sound like synth pads. If they want to hear the strings then you can choose certain passages where the synths drop down and the strings do their thing. And by 'their thing' I mean idiomatic movement, vibrato, layering, countermelody etc.
mikehamm123
Member
I've been struggling with this issue myself. What I've been working on is independent string lines that have a logical flow (voice leading) instead of a wash of big synthy chords. Also expanding the range so the string parts are spaced over 2-3 octaves, instead of 'piano voicing'.
This is my latest exploration:
You have a great sound and ear and the way you used your string patches works but if you emulated the way a 'real string section' is organized, it might sound more 'authentic'.
This is my latest exploration:
You have a great sound and ear and the way you used your string patches works but if you emulated the way a 'real string section' is organized, it might sound more 'authentic'.
NoamL
Winter <3
These are some really nice vibey tracks.
Without looking at the other comments yet - I think you have primarily a mix distance problem. The strings feel shoved in the background like an afterthought. They sound real enough by themselves - there's no MIDI programming issue - but they lack presence and resonance. All of your guitars and synths are very close to the listener. The strings need to be equal partners, right now they are literally upstaged which leaves them feeling thin and even hesitant as if you recorded a group of community orchestra players who aren't used to tracking alongside prerecords. This is where I think your music sup is coming from.
So the fix would be to turn up CSS's close mics or perhaps use exclusively close mics to fix the distance problem; turn up the absolute volume level; and use EQ to let the "warmth" of the strings complement the cold vibey nature of your keyboard synths. As a last resort if that doesn't satisfy the client, I would also try to mock up everything again with a larger and bolder sounding library instead of the more intimate sound of CSS. However that would be a last resort. I think you can really fix this by just turning up the strings 3dB, tweaking the mic mix and bringing out a bit more of the rich lower frequencies especially of the violas and cellos.
I feel ya about translating from "directorese" into actual music terms. It's a necessary part of the job though.
Without looking at the other comments yet - I think you have primarily a mix distance problem. The strings feel shoved in the background like an afterthought. They sound real enough by themselves - there's no MIDI programming issue - but they lack presence and resonance. All of your guitars and synths are very close to the listener. The strings need to be equal partners, right now they are literally upstaged which leaves them feeling thin and even hesitant as if you recorded a group of community orchestra players who aren't used to tracking alongside prerecords. This is where I think your music sup is coming from.
So the fix would be to turn up CSS's close mics or perhaps use exclusively close mics to fix the distance problem; turn up the absolute volume level; and use EQ to let the "warmth" of the strings complement the cold vibey nature of your keyboard synths. As a last resort if that doesn't satisfy the client, I would also try to mock up everything again with a larger and bolder sounding library instead of the more intimate sound of CSS. However that would be a last resort. I think you can really fix this by just turning up the strings 3dB, tweaking the mic mix and bringing out a bit more of the rich lower frequencies especially of the violas and cellos.
I feel ya about translating from "directorese" into actual music terms. It's a necessary part of the job though.
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