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Feedback on some Mozart with MSS

Dr X

Dr X

(formerly: Soderholm)
Hi!
I’m 5 months in to the world of virtual instruments and creating MIDI mockups and compositions. I’ve bought a couple of sample libraries and for strings I’ve gone with CSS and Modern Scoring Strings by Audiobro.

From what I have read on this forum, it seems like a lot of people love CSS for a lot of reasons but I really like MSS too.

I would love feedback on a mockup I’m working with.
Any input is of value, MSS specific or reverb settings, routing, mixing in general.
Really anything you guys can think of, everything is still new to me. Hope this is the right place to post the thread.


I was blown away by the mockup on the CSS product page by Arnaud Derhan of Mozarts Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, the first movement.
So I’ve been trying to recreate it using MSS instead.




Btw, thanks to @Simon Passmore for the Logic Template and lot’s of great programming tips. It’s available for subscribers here.


What would you do differently? And is something good as it is in your opinion?
Cheers.
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That’s nice! MSS sounds so great here, IMO. Maybe it’s a little bigger/lusher than was originally intended for a classical piece, but the tone is gorgeous and works really well for it.

I’m not familiar enough with either classical or composing in an actual DAW (I use Sibelius) to give detailed feedback, but since you asked for feedback, two little things do stick out to me:

1) The instruments’ loudness is a bit uneven at times; in particular, the violins seem to disappear in certain sections (for instance, they’re loud and clear for the first 9 seconds, but then start going quiet after that, sometimes to the point where I strain to hear them). I’d suggest giving it a full listen with that in mind (maybe without earphones, which can trick you into thinking soft details are more audible than they really are) and bumping up their dynamics a little bit where needed.

2) The rhythm is a little uneven/jumpy at times – for instance, the ending notes on bar 4, beat 4 are slightly delayed (which is good, some nice humanization there), but the next notes on bar 5, beat 1 start a little too quick; I’d put a very slight pause there, just a mouse’s breath, so it doesn’t feel like it skips ahead to the next beat so fast, y’know? This happens a few times throughout the track.

Still, those nitpicks aside, this is really nice after just five months in the field. I would’ve been jealous when I was five months into it and producing nothing that sounded half this nice, that’s for sure. Keep it up!
 
Yes I considered using only the divisi A for each section for a while because the piece usually is performed by a chamber orchestra or even a quintet. But I decided on the full string section to try out MSS to the fullest.

Thanks for your input,
1) That could absolutely be true, I think my mind got so used to hearing all the parts that it fills in the blanks where the volume of a certain part actually is to low compared the the others. Also been soloing the parts a lot and only used headphones as you said. I have not bought any monitors since that's whey to complicated and expensive for me right now.

2) I know what you mean and I actually agree. Sometimes it feels like the orchestra stumbles upon the next bar, kind of surprised. I'll pay some attention to those places as well.

Thanks a lot!
 
Glad to help! It’s a great mockup, especially for a relative beginner.

I personally never use headphones – I know there are some who swear by them, but I just can’t stand how they amplify quieter details. They’re great for when you just want to enjoy music, but when you’re monitoring to get your mix balanced right, it just leads to problems.

Monitors can definitely get very expensive, but if you can swing it, even the very cheapest are still better than almost any regular speakers. For instance – if you don’t mind a recommendation – I use IK Multimedia iLoud Micro monitors, since I can’t afford anything more expensive (or fit anything bigger in my bedroom studio 😅). They have impressive bang for their buck, given their tiny size (the bass response in particular is impressive), and they sell for about $350, though you can probably find lower offers if you look. Here’s a detailed review by an audiophile, if you’re interested. (You’ll also need an audio interface to plug them into – I use/recommend PreSonus’s AudioBox USB 96, a nice li’l beginner unit you can find for ~$100.)

Anyway, didn’t mean for this to turn into Noc’s Hardware Corner there. Hopefully it helps?
 
No I would love some recommendations for sure, maybe a bit off topic but still! I also have to treat the room with acoustic panels so it's just such a big project to take on when all I want to do is creat music, not measure acoustics and research monitors all day 😄

I will do this at some point, but my wallet is filled with butterflies after buying a MacBook pro, Focusrite interface, headphones, external SSD and all the sample libraries. Many reviews about monitors say that acoustic treatment is equally important as the monitors them self, would you agree?
 
Soderholm said:
Many reviews about monitors say that acoustic treatment is equally important as the monitors them self, would you agree?
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Definitely – the best sound hardware in the world is for naught if your space has so much reverb and frequency buildup that it completely ruins your perception of the sound. That said, I’m not one to give any specific advice on acoustic treatment – I just use my bedroom as-is, and I’m lucky enough that my bed, drapes and various furniture cut down on reverb enough to make it almost pseudo-treated. 😆
 
Very well done. You've got a bright future if this is how you're coming out of the gate because you obviously got a great ear for writing nuanced playing techniques and achieving realism.

I would agree with Noc that the violins tend to become too soft during the phrases and could be brought up a bit.

The unison runs at 3:40 sound a wee bit synthetic, but that may be the nature of the beast.
If you're looking for recommendations for future speakers, I'll throw in a thumbs up for the Kali KP6 monitors I got recently. I've not done anything substantial on them yet. Just template building. But I like the way they sound. Very clear.

Again, Really well done.

M.
 
Thanks @Matt Godbey
Appreciate those kind words!
I agree that the places with unison writing is a bit too synthetic, that's somehow the hardest places to achieve realism..
 
Brilliant. I imagine the amount of programming work.
I own MSS too, but I'm far from getting this quality.
By the way, given your experience with this library, would you say that it's possible to get rid if the scales articulation (for ram purpose), and write each notes with other articulations, and achieve the same realism ? (In addition, it would feel visualy better to see the notes than to struggle with 4N-W-W-H etc...)
Thanks.
 
robismz said:
Brilliant. I imagine the amount of programming work.
I own MSS too, but I'm far from getting this quality.
By the way, given your experience with this library, would you say that it's possible to get rid if the scales articulation (for ram purpose), and write each notes with other articulations, and achieve the same realism ? (In addition, it would feel visualy better to see the notes than to struggle with 4N-W-W-H etc...)
Thanks.
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Thanks a lot! Yes, I tried every possible way to achieve scales, and I ended up not using the scale articulation at all actually. I think they will work great in fast runs (kind of Williams / Elfman fast runs) but it didn't work in this piece. My experience is that the scales and runs articulations are both the good and bad with MSS, it will most likely sound good, but the time fiddling with figuring out what note to draw in the piano roll and what precise articulation to use (ex 4N-W-W-H) is so time consuming that it breaks my flow and I get stuck on a single phrase on a single instrument, rather then continuing. For me, there has to be a balance with the end product (how it sounds) and the workflow.
 
I agree with you : it breaks the flow. For such thing, do you use short articulation or bowed long, a mix of both ?
 
robismz said:
I agree with you : it breaks the flow. For such thing, do you use short articulation or bowed long, a mix of both ?
Click to expand...
Hey, I just opened up the project and found out I told an accidental lie. :emoji_laughing:

I did use scales, but only in a few places.
I'll upload a video showing you some of the articulations I used for Violin 1..
 
I think you made a well balanced and musical expressed mock up, congratulation!
Its very difficult and demanding to make mock ups of the old classical pieces.
To my taste the string groups sounds a bit to far away.
Thank you for sharing.
 
OleJoergensen said:
I think you made a well balanced and musical expressed mock up, congratulation!
Its very difficult and demanding to make mock ups of the old classical pieces.
To my taste the string groups sounds a bit to far away.
Thank you for sharing.
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Thanks Ole, I actually agree with you, they do sound far away. I think I might open up the project again and try different mic positions. I might be wrong, but I believe that if a string library can pull off this kind of music, it should be able to pull off most things including more film scoring soundtracks etc.
 
cedricm said:
Impressive!
You may want to try shorter reverb times and/or reverb ducking.
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Thanks, yeah I have a lot to learn about reverb. Ducking is complete new to me.
Do you know of any good tutorials for orchestral mixing? Or perhaps mixing strings in particular..
 
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