Equivalent of VIC for pop music production or songwriting?

[KEM]

I’d be interested in it, pop production is so dense and intricate and considering it’s “popular” music for a reason, I think it would make sense to have at least some sort of subsection dedicated to it. We already see stuff in various sections of the forum where people have questions about about how stuff relates to pop music or other genres, like mixing, samples libraries, etc. and as someone who comes from a metal and rap background and still loves those genres, I would like to see a section where I can check in on what people are saying about those specific genres and maybe gain some insight into things I could potential bring into film music as well

 

[cqd]

I suppose if it was reasonably well laid out you could sidestep some of the potential problems too..

 

[Crowe]

I would love to see a bit more genre-coverage on VI-Control. I originally came here expecting 'Virtual Instruments', but mainly got 'Virtual Orchestras'. I see value in this, but sometimes lament there not being more general spaces to discuss other types of music.

While not particularly pop-oriented, many of my favorite soundtracks aren't at all orchestral in nature. A place to share production techniques would be welcome.

I have *no* idea how to incorporate that into this forum without clogging up the 'recent posts' even more though.

 

[Polkasound]

This is a tough call.

I like the idea of having a home for pop/country/rock VI musicians. I'd most definitely use it, because I'm not a composer; I'm a songwriter. I don't create mockups; I produce songs. Although I use VI libraries extensively, I don't fit in with the orchestral discussions on this forum and I don't fit in with the heavy synth discussions on other forums. I've always felt like a VI musician floating around in no-man's land.

VI-Control is the best forum for virtual instruments, but it was specifically created for composers and film music mock-ups. It wasn't designed to encompass other genres. That doesn't mean VI-Control can't, but my concern is that it would make the forum too big. Staffers would need to be hired to handle moderating, payroll, advertising, etc., and no one would be able to keep up with the latest posts feed. And imagine if the music production section got discovered and infested by the world's overabundance of amateur EDM producers discussing things like Serum presets, loops, and beats. There's nothing wrong with those topics, but it would overwhelm VI-Control.

I think the internet needs a new forum, much like VI-Control, but tailored to non-orchestral music production. It could include, for example, a section on songwriting, a section on studio recording, a section to share/promote new songs, a section to promote vocalists and instrumentalists for hire, sections for plugins, instruments and hardware, etc. The creation of a new forum would benefit VI-Control by siphoning away the non-orchestral chatter (like the mammoth Synth V thread, for example.)

[But please don't look to me to start a new forum. I already served my time running one.]

 

[rAC]

Would it be called Pop-I Control?

Or just PVC?

 

[fieldmousetrebuchet]

Think the MakePopMusic YouTube channel has a Facebook group, if you do FaceBook (I don’t so am unable to confirm how good it is). The YouTube channel is good though!

I am pretty much all pop music all the time (yes, I even mostly listen to it!). A lot of this stuff happens in person, or via Instagram etc, rather than via forums.

 

[SupremeFist]

The creation of a new forum would benefit VI-Control by siphoning away the non-orchestral chatter (like the mammoth Synth V thread, for example.)

Hey, I found that thread very useful! (And I didn't think VI-C was supposed to be devoted only to orchestral VIs.)

 

[sean8877]

I would like a forum for pop music. I am not sophisticated at all though so maybe not a good fit.

 

[pete_crum]

Hey, I found that thread very useful! (And I didn't think VI-C was supposed to be devoted only to orchestral VIs.)

I lurked in that thread for a bit - it's very informative. I'm glad to see it here even though I don't have any of the VIs discussed. Yet.

I like the idea of VI-C providing portals to various extremely-in-depth worlds of music creation/production discussion and information. If there's room here for endless virtual string library lust and conjecture, why shouldn't there be room for some genuine technical-focused discourse on music styles that don't use string libraries?

 

[Polkasound]

(And I didn't think VI-C was supposed to be devoted only to orchestral VIs.)

VI-Control was founded so that "those who use MIDI Mockup to score for film, TV, movie trailers, video games and documentaries could congregate, share ideas, collaborate, network and create great music." That doesn't automatically omit non-orchestral instrument libraries, but it obviously and aptly shapes this forum into one that is heavily orchestral.

The orchestral aspect of VI-Control is the very thing that helps it stand apart from other music forums. It helps keep this forum civil as there aren't many sharp-tongued, 14-year-old EDM bedroom producers interested in Chopin's use of counterpoint.

I think VI-Control has been as accommodating and welcoming to non-orchestral musicians as it can be while staying the course with its original mission. My concern is that if VI-Control takes any big steps to become any more accommodating and inclusive, it could affect the forum's uniqueness. So in my opinion, I think it would be best to have a separate, independent forum for VI users that would cater to traditional music producers and songwriters.

 

[oepion]

Just current members, though, who know the difference between a violin and a viola, so the sophistication level stays high.

Ohhh I know this... the viola is like a smaller version of a violin and it's usually played with a wooden pick! No? What do you mean I'm out? Wait! Please! Let me use my phone-a-friend lifeline!

All jokes aside, it would be great to have a non-orchestral section. I don't know anything about pop production but I do know there are a lot of highly talented metal producers on the Neural DSP Facebook group and if we could attract people with that level of sophistication, I promise I'll become more sophisticated so I could hopefully be allowed into that section!

 

[NekujaK]

I'm going to take a slightly radical approach, as food for thought and just being Devil's advocate...

To me, at the end of the day, it's all music and sound. Yes, there are differences for how you might process an 808 versus a taiko drum, but the same general rules of sound and audio production are in play.

I'll bet that Dave Pensado can mix an orchestral cue just as good as he can mix a pop track because he's got experienced ears and understands the fundamentals of audio production. Sure, he's no Alan Meyerson, but I would still have confidence in him getting a decent mix of an orchestral film score.

in terms of pop songwriting vs orchestral composing... I don't know about everyone else, but when scoring films, writing library tracks, or satisfying a brief, I'm constantly asked to write music that's in a particular style or sounds like a particular song or piece of music. It can be all over the map stylistically, but the process is always the same regardless of genre: listen, research, listen again, compose, compare, finish.

Sometimes part of the research involves coming to this forum and posting a question. And the great news is, I've discovered I can pretty much ask any question about any style of music and get helpful and informative answers. A specific sub-forum for pop, jazz, reggae, hip hop, etc. doesn't need to exist because, as my opening statement said, it's all music and sound.

Yes, the discussions on VI-C lean heavily on the orchestral side of things, but it's just as easy to create a post or ask a question about synth drums as it is to discuss violin legatos. And fortunately, the amazing community here is ready, willing, and able to jump in and provide help in both cases.

So I guess my conclusion is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it

 

[SupremeFist]

I'm going to take a slightly radical approach, as food for thought and just being Devil's advocate...

To me, at the end of the day, it's all music and sound. Yes, there are differences for how you might process an 808 versus a taiko drum, but the same general rules of sound and audio production are in play.

I'll bet that Dave Pensado can mix an orchestral cue just as good as he can mix a pop track because he's got experienced ears and understands the fundamentals of audio production. Sure, he's no Alan Meyerson, but I would still have confidence in him getting a decent mix of an orchestral film score.

in terms of pop songwriting vs orchestral composing... I don't know about everyone else, but when scoring films, writing library tracks, or satisfying a brief, I'm constantly asked to write music that's in a particular style or sounds like a particular song or piece of music. It can be all over the map stylistically, but the process is always the same regardless of genre: listen, research, listen again, compose, compare, finish.

Sometimes part of the research involves coming to this forum and posting a question. And the great news is, I've discovered I can pretty much ask any question about any style of music and get helpful and informative answers. A specific sub-forum for pop, jazz, reggae, hip hop, etc. doesn't need to exist because, as my opening statement said, it's all music and sound.

Yes, the discussions on VI-C lean heavily on the orchestral side of things, but it's just as easy to create a post or ask a question about synth drums as it is to discuss violin legatos. And fortunately, the amazing community here is ready, willing, and able to jump in and provide help in both cases.

So I guess my conclusion is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it

I agree! Good sound engineering is good sound engineering. I've learned a ton of things here that I've then put to use in very different contexts, as well as stuff that I've employed as intended vis-à-vis pianos, chamber strings and whatnot. I don't think a separate pop subforum would do much harm but I completely understand why people want to keep this as the special place that it is.

 

[Mike Greene]

You lost me at sophisticated.

I'm not sure how you seperate "sophisticated" from the rest...

I would like a forum for pop music. I am not sophisticated at all though so maybe not a good fit.

I promise I'll become more sophisticated so I could hopefully be allowed into that section!

All right, all right.

"Sophisticated" was a poor choice of words. "Sophisticated" is a general term I'll often use when I'm thinking of the current membership. It's a combination of "Good social skills and the ability to converse in a positive way," along with useful knowledge, or if there's a lack of knowledge, then they have an appropriate read/write ratio. The fact that so many members have this combination is why the forum is as cool as it is.

If we had a pop section, my personal opinion would be that it's perfectly fine if a member didn't know snares usually go on 2's and 4's, in the same way that until the guys explained it to me while we were planning Sunset Strings, I didn't know what "sul tasto" was. Ignorance is fine, as long as it goes with good posting sense. (In my own case, you won't see me posting in orchestration threads, pretending I know what I'm talking about.)

 

[Reid Rosefelt]

@Mike Greene You might want to consider setting up a pop forum while Black Friday is still going on.
A lot of the software that's dedicated to contemporary pop (ujam, audiomodern, Toontrack, Realitone, output, reason, loopmasters, splice, etc) have sales now. Synth V Saros is still on intro price.

Maybe it's useful at this time to have a thread about what people favor when they create their pop music. Particularly the usual piano, guitar, bass and drum VIs.

 

[DoubleTap]

Huh. Everyone knows viola is the plural of violin.

Anyway, I don’t think KVR or Gearspace have genre-specific sections so it does feel as though there's a gap in the internet for people to talk about production of different styles.

 

[Polkasound]

If we had a pop section, my personal opinion would be that it's perfectly fine if a member didn't know snares usually go on 2's and 4's,

Maybe we should create a polka section, too, because I'd be more than willing to teach drummers that in the polka music, snares absolutely do not play the melody.

(In my own case, you won't see me posting in orchestration threads, pretending I know what I'm talking about.)

This is actually the crux of the issue. I love this forum because I'm a voracious user of virtual instruments, but I have very little interest or expertise in 199 out of 200 threads posted here. That doesn't mean there's a problem with the forum, but it does bring to light the no-man's land between orchestral/trailers/film and EDM/synths/beats.

VI-C members have always been very welcoming of all kinds of music created by its members, which is one of the things that makes this forum special. But it would be great to have a place separate from VI-C where we pop/rock/country musicians and songwriters could share and discuss our virtual instrument productions with a like-minded audience — where they wouldn't get overshadowed and buried by film score mockups and Spitfire Audio speculation threads.

--

But I'll tell you why I'm not crazy about a new subforum on VI-C for pop music: it would start to alter the course of the forum. The very reason the SynthV/Vocaloid subforum is hidden from the Latest Posts feed is because hiding it solved a problem. The bulk of the VI-C membership is not interested in having their string library discussions and film score mockups displaced by pop music production threads. So any subforum that specifically catered to non-orchestral music production would have to be hidden from the latest posts feed as well.

A hidden subforum may be better than no forum at all, but... is it really? I'm not so sure. That's why I'd rather keep VI-C the way it is and hope that maybe someday, someone out there will have the ambition to create and start a new virtual instruments music production forum.

 

[SupremeFist]

Maybe we should create a polka section, too, because I'd be more than willing to teach drummers that in the polka music, snares absolutely do not play the melody.


This is actually the crux of the issue. I love this forum because I'm a voracious user of virtual instruments, but I have very little interest or expertise in 199 out of 200 threads posted here. That doesn't mean there's a problem with the forum, but it does bring to light the no-man's land between orchestral/trailers/film and EDM/synths/beats.

VI-C members have always been very welcoming of all kinds of music created by its members, which is one of the things that makes this forum special. But it would be great to have a place separate from VI-C where we pop/rock/country musicians and songwriters could share and discuss our virtual instrument productions with a like-minded audience — where they wouldn't get overshadowed and buried by film score mockups and Spitfire Audio speculation threads.

--

But I'll tell you why I'm not crazy about a new subforum on VI-C for pop music: it would start to alter the course of the forum. The very reason the SynthV/Vocaloid subforum is hidden from the Latest Posts feed is because hiding it solved a problem. The bulk of the VI-C membership is not interested in having their string library discussions and film score mockups displaced by pop music production threads. So any subforum that specifically catered to non-orchestral music production would have to be hidden from the latest posts feed as well.

A hidden subforum may be better than no forum at all, but... is it really? I'm not so sure. That's why I'd rather keep VI-C the way it is and hope that maybe someday, someone out there will have the ambition to create and start a new virtual instruments music production forum.

You can ignore a whole subforum just as much as you can ignore an epic thread, though? (At least I think you can ignore a subforum: I think I did some time ago but can no longer remember which one it was.)

 

[Polkasound]

You can ignore a whole subforum just as much as you can ignore an epic thread, though?

Yes, and it's a great tool. I have a few subforums and probably around 1,000 threads on Ignore. But going back to the SynthV subforum, I think it just made more sense to hide the subforum than to expect 95% of the membership to put it on Ignore. I can see the same thing happening with any non-orchestral music production subforum, which makes me question whether VI-C is the most appropriate place to host such a subforum.

 

[fakemaxwell]

I can see the same thing happening with any non-orchestral music production subforum, which makes me question whether VI-C is the most appropriate place to host such a subforum.

I really do not see a world where after a month of a pop music forum being open, the entirety of VIC is overrun with new knuckledragging posters. When it's clear it's an issue it can be spun off or hidden or whatever. Hiding a new forum "just to be safe" only means nobody will use it.