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Epidemic Sound and P.R.O licenses

"Why mr Games wants to return composers to feudalism is beyond me. I doubt his music has generated significant value."

That's the problem with these threads: they always turn the focus away from facts and devolve into statements that have no basis in reality.

At no point have I said that PROs or royalties *should* go away. I simply have given factual evidence that they *can*. And I certainly said nothing along the lines of "composers shold return to feudalism".

Read what's written, not what you wish was written, and stick to the facts so we can have a rational discussion.

"Other people think it's a good idea" or "That's the way we've always done it" are not rational arguments.

Other people thought the world was flat for a long time. Does that mean the world is flat?

rgames
I have carefully read what you have written, for instance this:

"That's the other reason why PROs will eventually go away: why do composers even need royalties? Do the gig, get paid up front, and move on. There's an entire planet's worth of people who make a living that way, including most in the music biz, but because of the history of royalties in the music biz, composers don't.

For example, VFX/CG artists don't have a PRO and don't collect royalties. They do the same kid of job as composers: work with the director to help him realize his vision through their craft. They sign a contract, do the gig and get paid. Done. Next. It's a vastly more efficient model.

And outside the music biz the royalty model is exceedingly rare. Every royalty payment could go away and the world economy wouldn't notice. Almost nobody gets paid in royalties. But composers have to get paid via roylaties? I've never understood why."


What I read from the statements above is that you are advocating for a return to a one time payment for the "job", and no further part taking in the success of a project. "Because the rest of the world works that way" This is the really old fashioned thinking. It´s also lazy, and short sighted.
 
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@rgames If there are no royalties, how do composers/bands/performers get paid when their music is aired on radio/tv? Not at all? Is that what you suggest? I am still of the opinion that your idea is very narrowly focused on film and game composers, where your idea might work. In countless other fields it certainly won't, and you seem to patently ignore that.

Royalties are paid when music is being used commercially. You seem to advocate that music should be free for commercial use, and that composers only get paid for commissions. Again, that may work in the field of film music. In almost all other realms of music it doesn't.

And again, that's exactly the rules that existed in the times of Mozart and Beethoven. They were paid for commissions, and else made no money at all from their music. In these times there was no way to survive on the income of your music. You had to have a) wealthy patrons, b) earn your money by giving lessons c) have a well paid position at a royal court. Basically you had to have circumstances that allowed you to write music. There was no way to earn a normal living income simply by writing music. I fail to understand how you can realistically want to go back to that model.
 
Guys, please, in case you haven't read posts over the years from rgames, save yourself the trouble and just ignore him. I figured out he was a troll some time ago and blocked his posts so I don't see them coming up.

I feel sad for those of you e.g. SamC that are posting such thoughtful debate points. You are wasting your time.

You know what - maybe rgames's plan is to bog you all down so much in internet wars that you don't write as much music?

Or maybe he just read an Ayn Rand novel for the first time and decided to try out some logical fallacies on us (his favorite seems to be the "false equivalence").

Anyway, let's all save ourselves the trouble and get back to writing music.
 
Guys, please, in case you haven't read posts over the years from rgames, save yourself the trouble and just ignore him. I figured out he was a troll some time ago and blocked his posts so I don't see them coming up.

I feel sad for those of you e.g. SamC that are posting such thoughtful debate points. You are wasting your time.

You know what - maybe rgames's plan is to bog you all down so much in internet wars that you don't write as much music?

Or maybe he just read an Ayn Rand novel for the first time and decided to try out some logical fallacies on us (his favorite seems to be the "false equivalence").

Anyway, let's all save ourselves the trouble and get back to writing music.
I guess you´re right;)
 
Guys, please, in case you haven't read posts over the years from rgames, save yourself the trouble and just ignore him. I figured out he was a troll some time ago and blocked his posts so I don't see them coming up.

I feel sad for those of you e.g. SamC that are posting such thoughtful debate points. You are wasting your time.

You know what - maybe rgames's plan is to bog you all down so much in internet wars that you don't write as much music?

Or maybe he just read an Ayn Rand novel for the first time and decided to try out some logical fallacies on us (his favorite seems to be the "false equivalence").

Anyway, let's all save ourselves the trouble and get back to writing music.
Maybe you’re right. Unfortunately, this side hustle culture we have now gives rise to Epidemic-like models that prey on people like rgames. I figure he’s just frustrated his music isn’t bringing him the income he thinks it should - we’ve all been there at some point. I still believe industry-wide Epidemic-type models will just ensure hobbyists remain hobbyists forever. The current paradigm is probably not what’s holding him back.

I think what Daryl said earlier in this thread is important. It’s to be mindful of who you listen to in this industry - Especially as there seems to be so much more noise now. Everything should be taken with a pinch of salt, but when I started, I would personally pay less mind to people who had a day job selling insurance and spent all their free time comparing string libraries and acoustic panelling. There’s nothing wrong with it, but they’re just not the best repository for hands-on industry and business advice.

A good rule of thumb is ‘insecurities are loud, confidence is silent.’ The most helpful people in this industry are usually the quiet ones. The companies who shout from the rooftops about how many composers they have on their roster, how much money they pull in every year, how glamorous it is to have your music on tv, blah blah blah usually have an agenda. Epidemic spends an awful lot of money advertising; not to clients, but to composers. Go figure!

Agreed, back to writing music :)

p.s. I’m just another guy giving advice. Please take with lots of salt.
 
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