Creating an LFE track (How to?)
- Thread starter mrd777
- Start date
fakemaxwell
Senior Member
LFE really only exists in a 5.1+ context, in a 2.1 context the subwoofer is just for bass management (passing off the low freq content to a speaker better suited). There's only going to be LR tracks for normal 2.1 setup, so there's a little more information needed.
Traditionally the LFE is only for non-essential rumbling, as when surround is folded down the LFE track is completely deleted. You could route a L,R, and LFE track easily, but what is going to go down there?
But I do need to buy a subwoofer any how to create an LFE track, is that right? Just want to get the ball rolling on the order.
As for your question: They are going to make a 5.1 mix, but want me to help create the LFE track due to some kind of limit they have. They can only mix in 5.0, not 5.1.
I wish I could say more, but that's all I really know. I'm just offering to do the research and help with it.
timprebble
Sound designer, Composer, Sound library developer
The issue is having calibrated monitors so you know what you are creating will translate...
Nothing wrong with a 2.1 system but you will need to seperately calibrate your LR and the sub...
There's plenty of info about calibration & calibrated noise WAV files online to do this.
I highly recommend this plugin for generating LFE from existing material - its based on the infamous dbx120 subharmonic (not like LoAir that creates pseudo bass)
But less is more with sub on music, for example if too many subharmonics are added to double bass it can sound like someone playing chords/fifths etc = mud!
SFX/sound design often hogs LFE... sumimasen!
Nothing wrong with a 2.1 system but you will need to seperately calibrate your LR and the sub...
There's plenty of info about calibration & calibrated noise WAV files online to do this.
Speaker calibration tutorial for students - Gearspace.com
It seems like we get questions about how to mix for film/tv a lot in here, funny that. The most common misunderstanding I see is how to calibrate a hom
gearspace.com
I highly recommend this plugin for generating LFE from existing material - its based on the infamous dbx120 subharmonic (not like LoAir that creates pseudo bass)
reFuse Software: Lowender
reFuse Software: Tools for music and audio creation, including the Lowender and Bucketverb plugins.
www.refusesoftware.com
But less is more with sub on music, for example if too many subharmonics are added to double bass it can sound like someone playing chords/fifths etc = mud!
SFX/sound design often hogs LFE... sumimasen!
Thanks, Tim! I will check out that link.The issue is having calibrated monitors so you know what you are creating will translate...
Nothing wrong with a 2.1 system but you will need to seperately calibrate your LR and the sub...
There's plenty of info about calibration & calibrated noise WAV files online to do this.
Speaker calibration tutorial for students - Gearspace.com
It seems like we get questions about how to mix for film/tv a lot in here, funny that. The most common misunderstanding I see is how to calibrate a homgearspace.com
I highly recommend this plugin for generating LFE from existing material - its based on the infamous dbx120 subharmonic (not like LoAir that creates pseudo bass)
reFuse Software: Lowender
reFuse Software: Tools for music and audio creation, including the Lowender and Bucketverb plugins.www.refusesoftware.com
But less is more with sub on music, for example if too many subharmonics are added to double bass it can sound like someone playing chords/fifths etc = mud!
SFX/sound design often hogs LFE... sumimasen!
To be clear, I'm not doing this for music necessarily. It's going to be the LFE track for a film mix itself.
timprebble
Sound designer, Composer, Sound library developer
LFE is usually generated from individual components in the sound design etc, rather than generating it from mixed stems (what is your starting point? 5.0DX 5.0MX 5.0 FX stems?) It is quite a backwards/reverse engineering way of going about it, but I presume thats exactly why you're doing your research
Will the LFE track you create be then taken to a dub stage and combined with the existing 5.0 mix, prior to print mastering and deliveries etc?
If it was me, I would ask to do a test scene or two, and take it to the dub stage to verify your calibration and delivery is correct before proceeding with the entire film... So you dont present a fait accompli that doesn't work or needs remixing...
So the person making the film is able to do a 5.0 mix. They just need my help to create the LFE track to get it to 5.1. Apparently they are limited for some reason. Maybe they don't have a subwoofer. It wasn't made clear to me why.
I will get back to you once I find out more. You have definitely helped me get a better sense of what to do!
I will get back to you once I find out more. You have definitely helped me get a better sense of what to do!
Hi Tim,
So it appears, as of now, I'll be given 5 stems. Of course for each satellite speaker. Pre-mixed into each speaker channel/position.
I will then have to route whatever I want, at any given point in the film, to a newly created LFE track.
Ie, I'll have all the film audio. Just need to create an LFE track based on all the given material.
I assume I will just set up a send and add a low end generator like the one you mentioned:
reFuse Software: Lowender
Do you think I need to set up a 5.1 surround for this? I will probably set it up just to be safe anyhow, just to make sure I can listen to the film as the audience intended.
Thanks for your amazing help!
timprebble
Sound designer, Composer, Sound library developer
Ideally, of course yes.
You are altering a mix by adding elements afterwards, so I would think you would want to hear what you are doing as best you can, with a calibrated sound system.
And you mean 5.0 stems, not 5 stems
When a film is mixed, it is printed to multiple stems
one 5.1 stem for Dialog DX
one 5.1 stem for Music
one 5.1 stem for SFX/AMB/Foley
These stems are then combined in a mastering pass (print mater) to a single 5.1 mix.
Are you getting THREE x 5.0 (in your case) stems?
or one 5.0 final mix combined stem?
What happens after you finish your work?
Are the stem/s and your LFE additions taken to a proper film dub stage & print mastered?
If I was you I would want to know the answer to this question.
If the stem/s and your LFE additions ARE taken to a proper film dub stage & print mastered, then there is a final check of your work & the final soundtrack.
If the stem/s and your LFE additions ARE NOIT taken to a proper film dub stage & print mastered, then there is a possibility that you are doing the final pass, in which case I personally would not touch the project.
ALSO: I will add, I am not a film rerecording mixer. I have been sound designer & supervised on many (40+) films but the work you are doing is that of a rerecording mixer, and I would suggest asking your question at that GearSpace Post forum, as there are many film rerecording mixers there & they would be far better to advise you than I am. I don't see re-recording mixers on VI Forum.
Post Production Forum - Gearspace.com
Post Production Forum - Audio Post Production for Television, Film, Video and Radio.
gearspace.com
I see what you mean.Ideally, of course yes.
You are altering a mix by adding elements afterwards, so I would think you would want to hear what you are doing as best you can, with a calibrated sound system.
And you mean 5.0 stems, not 5 stems
When a film is mixed, it is printed to multiple stems
one 5.1 stem for Dialog DX
one 5.1 stem for Music
one 5.1 stem for SFX/AMB/Foley
These stems are then combined in a mastering pass (print mater) to a single 5.1 mix.
Are you getting THREE x 5.0 (in your case) stems?
or one 5.0 final mix combined stem?
What happens after you finish your work?
Are the stem/s and your LFE additions taken to a proper film dub stage & print mastered?
If I was you I would want to know the answer to this question.
If the stem/s and your LFE additions ARE taken to a proper film dub stage & print mastered, then there is a final check of your work & the final soundtrack.
If the stem/s and your LFE additions ARE NOIT taken to a proper film dub stage & print mastered, then there is a possibility that you are doing the final pass, in which case I personally would not touch the project.
ALSO: I will add, I am not a film rerecording mixer. I have been sound designer & supervised on many (40+) films but the work you are doing is that of a rerecording mixer, and I would suggest asking your question at that GearSpace Post forum, as there are many film rerecording mixers there & they would be far better to advise you than I am. I don't see re-recording mixers on VI Forum.
Post Production Forum - Gearspace.com
Post Production Forum - Audio Post Production for Television, Film, Video and Radio.gearspace.com
So, yes, I understand that this role is definitely outside of my role as a composer. The film is NOT going to theater. Simply releasing for home/streaming.
I already told them there is no way I would attempt to mix anything for theater, and they understand this. They will have to hire an engineer for that, if it ever made it there.
Essentially, they are going to package (print master, as you said) the LFE track and all the other channels and simply have it ready for streaming. The final mix is going to be played back and approved in a small room setting.
timprebble
Sound designer, Composer, Sound library developer
I hope they appreciate eg Netflix have very strict mix specs and quality control.
So "ready for streaming" can easily still be rejected if mix specs are incorrect etc...
I was happy to never be a rerecording mixer, because the final responsibility lies with them for mix delivery that will pass all QC checks.
Good luck, but do check with Gearspace mixers/do a search there - it may have been discussed previously
