Commercial not reported to PRO

[T-LeffoH]

Has anybody had a library track used in a promotional announcement by a network? And if so, how was it reported in your royalty statement?

A track of mine was used by a network for a promotional announcement in Q2, which I initially found out by seeing it air randomly, and just presumed I would later see something in my statement for the placement but there wasn't anything in my recent BMI statement.

It's only made me go

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[José Herring]

Has anybody had a library track used in a promotional announcement by a network? And if so, how was it reported in your royalty statement?

A track of mine was used by a network for a promotional announcement in Q2, which I initially found out by seeing it air randomly, and just presumed I would later see something in my statement for the placement but there wasn't anything in my recent BMI statement.

It's only made me go

The lag can be up to 9 months from where it airs to when it shows it.
Unless your track was stolen then the library that distributes it should have filed the cue with your PRO. If you're at ASCAP you can check your catalog and see if the title is there. If it is, then you should see something for it about 9 months after it airs. If it isn't properly registered, contact the library company that placed the track and get them to register it properly. They should have done it anyway because it's money for them too.

 

[tmhuud]

A Lot goes unreported. (I know...I'm starting to sound like a broken record) You have to be VERY pro-active with your PRO. BMI (had) better tracking devices and ASCAP is catching up but things get missed. And then there are the feature film TITLE CHANGES. Be careful with those. Might be good to update the cue sheet at that point.

 

[Jeremy Spencer]

Was it through an exclusive library? If so, did they register the track or did you do it?

This is another reason why I cringe at this saturated library market. I had a smilier situation when I had stuff on Pond5, where it's now the wild west and I have no doubt a ton of licenses go unreported.

 

[T-LeffoH]

Was it through an exclusive library? If so, did they register the track or did you do it?

This is another reason why I cringe at this saturated library market. I had a smilier situation when I had stuff on Pond5, where it's now the wild west and I have no doubt a ton of licenses go unreported.

It is with an exclusive library, and they've previously registered the track or the production reported on another cue sheet, for another use, as the track was used elsewhere beyond a promotional spot.

The only reason the promotional spot not being on my statement stuck out is that placements & performances from other things during Q2 are on my statement, though the promo spot would've played more than many of the other placements combined.

 

[T-LeffoH]

The lag can be up to 9 months from where it airs to when it shows it.
Unless your track was stolen then the library that distributes it should have filed the cue with your PRO. If you're at ASCAP you can check your catalog and see if the title is there. If it is, then you should see something for it about 9 months after it airs. If it isn't properly registered, contact the library company that placed the track and get them to register it properly. They should have done it anyway because it's money for them too.

This is from BMI's site directly. (https://www.bmi.com/creators)

"BMI’s royalty distributions typically cover performance activity that has taken place 6 to 8 months in the past, so please ensure your inquiry falls within this timeframe."

If what I know from the information I have is correct, the performance was throughout much of April, into first weekend date of May, under one promotional spot with a combination of edits in length.

With the next BMI quarterly in February, I don't know if I would see something 9 months later, as even BMI doesn't make that claim, but 9 months from this placement would be January.

Data management practices out there are still so archaic.

 

[José Herring]

Data management practices out there are still so archaic.

Yep. But it isn't the PRO's fault.

 

[T-LeffoH]

Yep. But it isn't the PRO's fault.

Though in my experience, a failure in business process involving multiple parties' functions to happen doesn't necessarily mean it is any one institutions' fault, it just means their are immature ways to manage errors in data quality, and the fault is shared by parties, including me, if there isn't a logical business process to control the error.

That being said, I appreciate the comments and though it seems I should be seeing something in data which I'm not, I'm just going to have to look into it.

 

[rgames]

I've had 4 or 5 placements for major-brand commercials and I know for a fact at least three of them never generated performance royalties. I'm not sure if the others did. From conversations with other composers, that's pretty typical.

ASCAP doesn't care.

I've tried multiple times to get paid missing royalties for all sorts of things but ... ASCAP ... just ... does ... not ... care.

(Here's my plug, once again, for getting rid of PROs...)

rgames

 

[T-LeffoH]

I've had 4 or 5 placements for major-brand commercials and I know for a fact at least three of them never generated performance royalties. I'm not sure if the others did. From conversations with other composers, that's pretty typical.

ASCAP doesn't care.

I've tried multiple times to get paid missing royalties for all sorts of things but ... ASCAP ... just ... does ... not ... care.

Thanks Richard, at least it gives more real world context, appreciate it.

(Here's my plug, once again, for getting rid of PROs...)

I'm not sure ridding this whole ecosystem of PROs helps; while they're maybe incredibly immature at improving their business technology & capabilities to fulfill their perceived role from a non-profit function, they're not as obsolete in function as some corporate businesses' offices I've seen closed before.

 

[HarmonKard]

A track of mine was used by a network for a promotional announcement in Q2, which I initially found out by seeing it air randomly, and just presumed I would later see something in my statement for the placement but there wasn't anything in my recent BMI statement.

You wouldn't. It's too soon. If it aired in Q2 of this year, you wouldn't see it until Q1 of 2023. PROs, for writers, are three quarters behind (or four, depending on how you count). Sometimes it takes an extra quarter; I would wait until the April 23 stmt to see if it paid.

If you dont see it, you have to get your hands on the cue sheet(s). My understanding is BMI members do not have access to their cue sheets in their BMI accts, but ACAP mambers do. Someone can correct me if that is wrong. The cue sheet is your invoice, it's how you get paid - with that in hand, you can go to BMI and tell them to pay you, assuming they have a contract with the network.

 

[T-LeffoH]

You wouldn't. It's too soon. If it aired in Q2 of this year, you wouldn't see it until Q1 of 2023. PROs, for writers, are three quarters behind (or four, depending on how you count). Sometimes it takes an extra quarter; I would wait until the April 23 stmt to see if it paid.

BMI's royalty distribution for Q2'2022 was in November, the Q3'2022 distribution will be in February...ASCAP has its own business processes. As I mentioned in OP it was a BMI statement.

Cue sheets are only part of the process, and handled by whatever post production team are responsible for it on their productions, not me. In order to pay on commercials, BMI has additional requirements in the form of paperwork and that process involves other parties...(not me)...to do this.

 

[tmhuud]

I have had GREAT experiences with ASCAP and met some wonderful people through networking. I have no issues with them. YMMV

I have also been to industry parties where a BMI rep would crash the party to try and get folks to with PRO's. One gal was quite kind and mentioned that if any ASCAP member wanted to drop by with a statement or cue sheet she could run the numbers and tell you what BMI would pay out.

 

[Daryl]

I've had 4 or 5 placements for major-brand commercials and I know for a fact at least three of them never generated performance royalties. I'm not sure if the others did. From conversations with other composers, that's pretty typical.

ASCAP doesn't care.

I've tried multiple times to get paid missing royalties for all sorts of things but ... ASCAP ... just ... does ... not ... care.

(Here's my plug, once again, for getting rid of PROs...)

rgames

But you never come up with a practical alternative.

 

[Roger Newton]

Has anybody had a library track used in a promotional announcement by a network? And if so, how was it reported in your royalty statement?

Loads. Right now I have a track for just that that's been going for about 6 days on PBS. Another has been going on German TV stations for about a year and others all over the place. Never had a problem with any of it on the PRS. There was another one last week or so on a New York news station. No issues.

 

[T-LeffoH]

But you never come up with a practical alternative.

With all due respect, his comment has probably been the most productive.

Did you have alternatives to suggest from experience managing complex, enterprise data needs for businesses?

I have plenty of ideas from such R&D experience in the automotive industry but I'm less inclined to publish them in an internet forum, bickering with people about it here and rather just gather the information about what people are experiencing relative to the issue I'm experiencing, follow up where I can, and provide feedback to business, legislative & political channels to start looking at it more.

 

[T-LeffoH]

Loads. Right now I have a track for just that that's been going for about 6 days on PBS. Another has been going on German TV stations for about a year and others all over the place. Never had a problem with any of it on the PRS. There was another one last week or so on a New York news station. No issues.

Thanks Roger, did your statement just contain some internal broadcast title for the promotion vs a show/episode name?

 

[HarmonKard]

BMI's royalty distribution for Q2'2022 was in November, the Q3'2022 distribution will be in February...ASCAP has its own business processes. As I mentioned in OP it was a BMI statement.

Yes, I read your OP. I made a mistake - thought the BMI pymt system was the same as ASCAP - I'm sorry. I was only trying to help, dude.

 

[T-LeffoH]

Yes, I read your OP. I made a mistake - thought the BMI pymt system was the same as ASCAP - I'm sorry. I was only trying to help, dude.

No apologies needed, all good, just trying to gather whatever useful information I can for whatever followup channels make the most sense.

With what Richard described, I certainly wouldn't rule out talking to an attorney to understand what additional cases to benefit composers have been before courts seeking to force businesses to standardize business processes beyond the likes of the MMA/Spotify.

 

[PebbleStream]

Out of curiosity what is a PRO? I'm still trying to sort out the 'music' side of making music at the moment so I'm not very knowledgeable on business