Scamper
Sample Hooter
That solo oboe from Berlin Exp B is never not stunning.
Best/ Your favourite Woodwinds Lib Poll,Please vote
- Thread starter axb312
- Start date
That solo oboe from Berlin Exp B is never not stunning.
ProfoundSilence
Senior Member
last woodwinds sale from cinesamples I finally picked up cinewinds pro for the ethnics(mainly the bagpipes) and after playing around a bit with the non-ethnics I decided to snag cinewinds core with the latest sale, so adding quite a bit to my lineup - I've found that there is definitely a thicker/mix filling quality to the cinewinds. I don't think it's a good idea to use them for ensemble stuff unless you EQ out a bunch of the lowest fundamental, but if you're looking for a non-virtuosic solo line the cinewinds stuff seems to really fill things out.
The amount of low end information is absolutely wild in my opinion - in comparison to my staple library(BWW) but to add on what others have stated here - sometimes it's a matter of picking the right tool for the job. Now that I own cinesamples I can see myself using them where others might be using the berlin exp B/C soloists - like this;
notice how much of the sound it fills(I only added a slight bit of reverb - right in kontakt); and imagine the low end created by trying to play chords.
The amount of low end information is absolutely wild in my opinion - in comparison to my staple library(BWW) but to add on what others have stated here - sometimes it's a matter of picking the right tool for the job. Now that I own cinesamples I can see myself using them where others might be using the berlin exp B/C soloists - like this;
notice how much of the sound it fills(I only added a slight bit of reverb - right in kontakt); and imagine the low end created by trying to play chords.
I noticed you just copied pasted the automation data on each library patch.
Especially the oboes this is very clear. (weird volume/dynamic bumps in almost every example, except one)
Land of Missing Parts
Grumpy Monkey
These examples were submitted from different people, since one person doesn't usually own this many winds libraries. I did some of the flute examples, but I didn't actually do the oboes. For that, you might want to ask @Jonathan Moray .
You are free to submit your own examples, if you think other folks aren't doing it well.
Library Comparison Thread (Audio Demos)
I thought people may like to hear the solo horn in JXL brass do this as well - See, it isn't all crazy processed FFF ;p Listening through them all, this is already one of my favorite and one of the most consistent examples of this. This is just the midi file available in this thread with...
vi-control.net
Land of Missing Parts
Grumpy Monkey
Here is the midi. You might want to check out that thread. Maybe even submit your own versions.My bad!
i see..i stand corrected
however, still it sounds like the exact same midi data on different libraries.
(maybe there is a midi file in that thread you provided)
Pantonal
Active Member
I listened to both demos and had the same thoughts as you. Thank you for saving me putting my foot in my mouth. However, your point is well taken and probably points as much to the variable level of skill among the contributors as differences in the libraries themselves.My bad!
i see..i stand corrected
however, still it sounds like the exact same midi data on different libraries.
(maybe there is a midi file in that thread you provided)
What I mean is that some of them sounded quite good and some not so much. As an owner of the 8dioboe I know it has significant limitations, the legato in particular, but that can be corrected with the SIPS script. The limited short articulations and baked in expressiveness can't be fixed with programming. But for $18 it has some uses.
Still I'm anxious to hear CSW.
Land of Missing Parts
Grumpy Monkey
If you can improve on this comparison, by all means submit your versions. Check out the thread.
Library Comparison Thread (Audio Demos)
This is a thread for comparing and discussing different libraries. We started this topic in another thread and I thought I’d move it here to try and keep it a bit more organised. Want to do a comparison: Post a midi file of what you want to compare, and tell us what what libraries you would...
vi-control.net
These comparisons are a group effort, since most of us don't own all of the winds libraries. Which means that we are relying on VIC members to step up.
I get that you may not like how some people did their mockups. My response: Join in and help make it better then.
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Jonathan Moray
Professional Procrastinator
These examples were submitted from different people, since one person doesn't usually own this many winds libraries. I did some of the flute examples, but I didn't actually do the oboes. For that, you might want to ask @Jonathan Moray .
You are free to submit your own examples, if you think other folks aren't doing it well.
Library Comparison Thread (Audio Demos)
I thought people may like to hear the solo horn in JXL brass do this as well - See, it isn't all crazy processed FFF ;p Listening through them all, this is already one of my favorite and one of the most consistent examples of this. This is just the midi file available in this thread with...
That's correct.
It's hard to standardize something like this to be a proper representative for each library while still having multiple different people involved. Like with everything: people have different preferences. If we had one person with all the libraries spending more time (more than most would be willing to do for a short test like this) it could maybe be done, but we don't. So this is the best we get... Until someone figures something better out. It might be helpful for some, might not be for others.
For me, honestly, it's almost more interesting to hear the same midi played back exactly the same for each library, that will tell me a lot. For example, it will tell differences in how the library handles midi without a lot of "massaging" to make it sound ok. Although, some libraries require more massaging than others to sound good, but when they have gotten the love they need they will sound great. But if you want to hear libraries in the best, or at least a good, context, then the developer demos/walkthroughs/tracks are always a good place to start - but those demos/tracks won't tell me anything about how easy they are to work with, how consistent they are, or what they will sound like out of the box. A test like this will show me a glimpse of that.
To summerise: Changing midi for each library will tell us things about the libraries, not changing the midi will tell us other things.
My bad!
i see..i stand corrected
however, still it sounds like the exact same midi data on different libraries.
(maybe there is a midi file in that thread you provided)
Some of the Oboe contributions used the same midi - most I would guess - but I know that at least one or two didn't. I can't really demand that people spend more time than they are willing on a test like these, its more for fun than anything.
I agree with you, Pantonal: a lot of it is also up to the proficiency of the contributor. Some of the contributions are with libraries that the person hasn't used in a few years, it's just something they threw in because they had it. There's also no added reverb can mask the bumps and imperfections to most of the libraries.
And as Land of Missing Parts said: You are more than welcome to submit your own take on any of the current tracks or submit a comparison of something completely new.
Obviously, it should be clear that you should take any demo with a grain of salt, even developers. I know people who can make bad libraries sound good, and I know people who can make good libraries sound bad.
unclecheeks
Senior Member
Oh boy, those SStW winds sound pretty washed out, was expecting a more close sound considering that this is the “Studio” series. I assume this is the Tree mic? Do you have the pro version with the close mics? Have been interested in completing my Studio package, as I recently got the pro strings and they sound quite nice, but I find this woods example pretty underwhelming.
Land of Missing Parts
Grumpy Monkey
SStW flute is Core in that example, so it's the Tree mic. I do not own SStW Pro, sorry. I updated the original post.
unclecheeks
Senior Member
How do you like the library in general? I'm watching walthroughs and it seems some instruments sound quite good with the Tree mic, but others like the flute and clarinet really shine with the close mics. The Cinesamples package is tempting me, but I'm thinking it might be good to stay with the Studio series for consistency (strings are quite nice!) I'm going for a palette that lets me go close and detailed, but can also take a nice amount of ambient/effecty reverb, without turning into synth pad blur.
I upgraded to SStW Pro with similar misconceptions. My advice is.....don't.
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Land of Missing Parts
Grumpy Monkey
I can only speak to SStW Core, since that's what I own. For people starting out, I'd say it's a great option at that price point.
But in practice, I've not been using it much, because I also own BWW (Legacy) and BWW Exp B, which just does the job better. The difference for me is in the performances; I find SStW to be a bit flat and BWW to be more musical. I don't have strong feelings about the room, although I know other folks do. Also, SStW has something that my BWW libraries don't have: a bass clarinet. So I still use SStW for that.
I went back and found the project where I made that Leia SStW Flute mockup. I had some reverb on it. So I made another output, this version is just the Tree mic with no other reverb or processing.
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Pantonal
Active Member
So I tried the midi with the 8dioboe and couldn't get it to sound any better, SIPS script or not. It seems the midi was particularly good at finding the really bad legato transitions in the 8dioboe. The midi does have quite a bit of CC programming, modulation and breath. It seems both modwheel and breath controller were used in the original which would mean it would probably be optimized for one library but should be edited when used with any different library.
Jonathan Moray
Professional Procrastinator
Good to have a second opinion on it.
I actually created the midi. It was made for the Audio Modeling Oboe but there's not any over-the-top midi CCs, only the standard Dyn and Vib.
Some of the ones that contributed lowered the Dyn (CC1) and instead moved it to the Vol (CC11) because it suited the library better. BWW B only has one dynamic layer so adding some CC11 would give it more dynamism.
I don't own BWW B, but I would suspect there are already some dynamics recorded into the samples since it's supposed to be used as a solo instrument, giving it a more natural feel. The same is true for 8DiOboe. Meaning that removing some of the CC1 / Dynamics could be in favour of the library. Of course, this is not always true, but for these types of libraries, it could very well be.
Jonathan Moray
Professional Procrastinator
By the way, some of the bumpiness of the libraries is when they transition from non-vib to vib. This is a problem with most libraries, but especially solos, and definitely with solo woodwinds. A lot of them don't have a manual x-fading between the non-vib and vib, but instead, a "switch" that flips between the samples once CC2 goes over a certain level (often over a value of 64).
This could be good to know for the general thread because it sure as hell is something that bothers me a lot. I understand that having a switch is better for the phasing and ensemble sound of two players playing at the same time that can occur if both non-vib and vib samples both play @50%. Having the switch be a quick and automatic transition fixes that to some extent, but it also removes control from me, the user, to fade between the vibrato as a wish and that can sometimes create these bumps.
This could be good to know for the general thread because it sure as hell is something that bothers me a lot. I understand that having a switch is better for the phasing and ensemble sound of two players playing at the same time that can occur if both non-vib and vib samples both play @50%. Having the switch be a quick and automatic transition fixes that to some extent, but it also removes control from me, the user, to fade between the vibrato as a wish and that can sometimes create these bumps.
unclecheeks
Senior Member
Ah, that’s too bad... I assume you also have SStS Pro? what do you prefer to use for woodwinds with them? I’m mainly looking to use the strings close mics, with a splash of algo or convo reverb to get them to sit in various types of spaces. Hoping for similar flexibility with a ww library.
And also curious what you disliked about SStW if you can elaborate.
