Bartok is way cool. . How about some Varese?

[Saccobakunin]

To my ear, something like the soundtrack to the original "Planet of the Apes" owes much more to Varese than Bartok (I'm starting this thread in response to the recent Bartok thread where it was stated that Bartok probably influenced Goldsmith a great deal). The above link is similar to "The Miraculous Mandarin" in the fact that it is something of a response to "The Rite of Spring." However, there is a marked difference between the two in the orchestration. The forces are quite similar but here, Varese is much more lush with the string writing and the combination of sub-groups.

Another favorite:

Here he gets into electronics via the Theremin or Ondes Martinot (This performance is with the Ondes). Also, the emphasis in the orchestration has moved away from melody and harmony and towards sheer pitch, rhythm, and timbre. Also, fun fact, this one has one or two (I'm going by memory) quarter-tones in the bass trombone that are distinctly notated and played (glissandi are microtonal by default but he actually uses quarter-tones).

Finally, Varese was a great pioneer in the use of Tape/Electronics. I won't bother you with "Poem Electronique" because it is something all aspiring composers should and probably do know already. What I will bring up is "Deserts," another orchestral (sans strings) piece that has "Electronic Interpolations."



There is plenty to love about the music of Varese. The only thing I wish for is a time machine to go back and encourage him not to burn the works he wrote that he did not like. Like his teacher Dukas, he was overly perfectionistic. Bummer for us. The entire library of his works fit onto two CDs, so maybe rather than watching the latest sHit film with a sHit score, you could spend some time with this innovator.

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[swinkler]

I have to say I was totally unfamiliar with Varese and some of it I really like. I don't care for the more electronic stuff as it seems more atmospheric and I don't really connect with it. But I loved the first piece you posted. Great find and yes I think it does sound a lot like Planet of the Apes.

 

[mikrokosmiko]

For me, Density 21.5 and Octandre are amongst the finest pieces of music ever written. This man was so ahead of his time

 

[Saccobakunin]

I have to say I was totally unfamiliar with Varese and some of it I really like. I don't care for the more electronic stuff as it seems more atmospheric and I don't really connect with it. But I loved the first piece you posted. Great find and yes I think it does sound a lot like Planet of the Apes.

"Atmospheric?" Do you mean to say that the problem is that it doesn't align to a regular pulse? I could go on but I'll wait to see what you meant. I have no problem if that is your opinion but I can't really tell what you're getting at.

Also, somehow this brings to mind the masterful soundtrack/music from "Forbidden Planet." I don't think there's a single beat in that music, just organized sounds that are meant to evoke the distant future. Maybe it is a future where most of us do not goose step around to a beat.

 

[swinkler]

"Atmospheric?" Do you mean to say that the problem is that it doesn't align to a regular pulse? I could go on but I'll wait to see what you meant. I have no problem if that is your opinion but I can't really tell what you're getting at.

Also, somehow this brings to mind the masterful soundtrack/music from "Forbidden Planet." I don't think there's a single beat in that music, just organized sounds that are meant to evoke the distant future. Maybe it is a future where most of us do not goose step around to a beat.

it seems that this music prioritizes texture as an organizing structure. maybe atmospheric isn't the right term.

 

[Saccobakunin]

it seems that this music prioritizes texture as an organizing structure. maybe atmospheric isn't the right term.

I'm struggling to reply but here it is: From what I can gather (PhD in music composition in hand) Varese is not all that textural. Sure there are gross textures in play at times but it seems to me that he is more often gestural. That is, things come and go in shortish motions akin to a physical gesture, especially in Poem Electronique.

Deserts is also mostly like this.

Either way, the key to listening to this music is in forgetting your expectations of almost all musical conventions.

 

[swinkler]

I'm struggling to reply but here it is: From what I can gather (PhD in music composition in hand) Varese is not all that textural. Sure there are gross textures in play at times but it seems to me that he is more often gestural. That is, things come and go in shortish motions akin to a physical gesture, especially in Poem Electronique.

Deserts is also mostly like this.

Either way, the key to listening to this music is in forgetting your expectations of almost all musical conventions.

Ok. I could see that. I was a music major as well (MA) and was exposed to lots of this sort of music but not necessarily this composer and not this piece.

You're right though that it's difficult to 'analyze' but that's how I heard it with only a couple listenings. I do appreciate the music, but it's not something I would listen to as a steady diet so to speak.

Thank you for your explanation.

 

[The Gost]

And Krzysztof Penderecki ?

 

[Saccobakunin]

And Krzysztof Penderecki ?

I'm going to say what my first thought is about him.

Watered down Xenakis followed by a career as a neo-romantic.

Lame and over-simplified, I know, but basically I do not have time for him when Xenakis invented what he emulated. This is my personal taste, though.