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AIR Studios Reverb Discussion Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter syrinx
  • Start date Start date
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TonalDynamics said:
I was going to make a whole ranty post about how absurd it is not to offer any functional demo for a plugin (not sample lib) in 2024, but dayum.

I felt the shockwave of this post all the way from wherever you are

:thumbsup:
Click to expand...
If it were an algo I'd agree - but the combi of not using ilok plus the fact that its a 10GB download (and to demo it you have to have all of the IRs really) - its over 67,000 impulse responses - so theres no simple solution really.
 
Peter Roos said:
Software for fast convolution calculations is not available off some shelf. Plugin companies have to invest manpower (time and money) to develop their own implementations in-house. It is quite normal to see performance differences between convolution engines from different companies.

For Berlin Studio's performance it makes no difference if it uses shared or calculated IRs (it also creates "non-shared" IRs on-the-fly, for instance with its time-alignment).

Cheers
Click to expand...
+100%

There are many ways of doing this and Peter is absolutely right, you develop a specific implementation that caters to your own specific need. And all of these reverbs - AIR, Berlin, MIR - they're all great tools that do different things. You don't just want one screwdriver!
 
Paul Thomson said:
If it were an algo I'd agree - but the combi of not using ilok plus the fact that its a 10GB download (and to demo it you have to have all of the IRs really) - its over 67,000 impulse responses - so theres no simple solution really.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing Paul, (love your videos man! They have sold me on quite a few SF products)
There are boatloads of products having uber-sales right now, 90% of which have functional demos, including Berlin Studio which I am astounded by, can't believe I was unaware of, etc., and am in the process of demo'ing.

You guys have created something singularly unique and cool with AIR reverb, which, as a proud owner of several Spitfire products (Tundra and Solstice are irreplaceable) I am dying to try out.

To that end, I really appreciate the 7-day money back guarantee as an olive branch, but it fails to suspend my disbelief somehow as a victim of several botched refunds in the past from other developers; like Rick from 'Pawn Stars' says, it's not that I don't trust YOU guys, I just don't trust anybody after being burned on refund policies before... it's the old 'once bitten, thrice-shy' bit (many of which admittedly boiled down to the poor customer service with ~3 day response times via whoever the company had outsourced to)

Paul Thomson said:
If it were an algo I'd agree - but the combi of not using ilok plus the fact that its a 10GB download (and to demo it you have to have all of the IRs really) - its over 67,000 impulse responses - so theres no simple solution really.
Click to expand...

Help me understand this part better (and thanks a lot for coming here and talking to us like this btw, you are much appreciated); when you say 10GB download, I'm just assuming you mean your server loads would skyrocket if you offered a demo? Being a company who continuously offers downloads pushing into the terabytes I'd assume this to be a non-factor, but I am of course ignorant of your metrics.

Are we talking piracy of the IRs here? If so I don't really understand how having the impulses apart from the UI would do anyone any good; without the microphones, faders, or any of the controls it would be like trying to build a piece of furniture out of toothpicks, no?

Paul Thomson said:
its over 67,000 impulse responses - so theres no simple solution really
Click to expand...
How about a compromise on this front? I saw that you guys released the slimmed-down version recently i.e. the 'essentials' package; would it be possible to make a demo of this lighter version so that users can explore the UI (Berlin features this for the full product incidentally)?

Offering a 'curated' set of functionality for trial purposes is a common way for many developers to offer demos, especially smaller guys who have virtually no protection and create presets/profiles for closed software platforms (a lot of TONEX profile-makers do this, for instance)

Again, thanks so much for your time!
 
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TonalDynamics said:
Here's the thing Paul, (love your videos man! They have sold me on quite a few SF products)
There are boatloads of products having uber-sales right now, 90% of which have functional demos, including Berlin Studio which I am astounded by, can't believe I was unaware of, etc., and am in the process of demo'ing.

You guys have created something singularly unique and cool with AIR reverb, which, as a proud owner of several Spitfire products (Tundra and Solstice are irreplaceable) I am dying to try out.

To that end, I really appreciate the 7-day money back guarantee as an olive branch, but it fails to suspend my disbelief somehow as a victim of several botched refunds in the past from other developers; like Rick from 'Pawn Stars' says, it's not that I don't trust YOU guys, I just don't trust anybody after being burned on refund policies before... it's the old 'once bitten, thrice-shy' bit (many of which admittedly boiled down to the poor customer service with ~3 day response times via whoever the company had outsourced to)



Help me understand this part better (and thanks a lot for coming here and talking to us like this btw, you are much appreciated); when you say 10GB download, I'm just assuming you mean your server loads would skyrocket if you offered a demo? Being a company who continuously offers downloads pushing into the terabytes I'd assume this to be a non-factor, but I am of course ignorant of your metrics.

Are we talking piracy of the IRs here? If so I don't really understand how having the impulses apart from the UI would do anyone any good; without the microphones, faders, or any of the controls it would be like trying to build a piece of furniture out of toothpicks, no?


How about a compromise on this front? I saw that you guys released the slimmed-down version recently i.e. the 'essentials' package; would it be possible to make a demo of this lighter version so that users can explore the UI (Berlin features this for the full product incidentally)?

Offering a 'curated' set of functionality for trial purposes is a common way for many developers to offer demos, especially smaller guys who have virtually no protection and create presets/profiles for closed software platforms (a lot of TONEX profile-makers do this, for instance)

Again, thanks so much for your time!
Click to expand...
Yes basically - it’s the download costs if we had 10s of thousands of people downloading to try it out! Also the essentials is also 10GB - same sound but mainly focussed on the presets and narrower functionality of control.

The refund offer stands!
 
Paul Thomson said:
Yes basically - it’s the download costs if we had 10s of thousands of people downloading to try it out! Also the essentials is also 10GB - same sound but mainly focussed on the presets and narrower functionality of control.

The refund offer stands!
Click to expand...
I see; I'm assuming it's technically impossible to blend and render the microphones from those 54 presets into fewer impulses in order to save space.

Thanks for the clarification!
 
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For those of you guys who have the product, are there any good close-to-mid microphone positions?

Let's say I've got a close-miked source or a DI signal such as a synth output or instrument pickup; are there presets (for the essentials) that offer good clarity without burying the source too much back in the room?

I love the huge sound of Lyndhurst as much as anyone, but when mixing I typically prefer 'mid' distance mics (typically ribbons), in the 4' to 10' range, to roll off a bunch of obnoxious frequencies while keeping the source natural and organic, after which I'll just bring up a certain close mic that offers more midrange clarity to taste.

How suited is AIR reverb for this purpose?
 
Hi, I haven't read this whole thread, but I'm playing around with the Essentials version of the AIR Reverb.

Here is MSS + AIR Reverb Essentials
vs
SSS Performance Legato Default settings

MSS Violins 1 Close mics only, EQ off, touch of "Brightness" added from front panel UI, going in mono to the Spitfire AIR Studio Reverb Essentials on just "The Hall" preset, insert, mixed at 23%.

SSS (Spitfire Symphonic Strings) Performance legato of violins 1 default playing nearly the exact same midi (the midi was adjusted so the performances are the same).

Blind test:

View attachment SSS.mp3
View attachment MSS.mp3

SSS then MSS

Anyone who knows the sound of the two will be able to tell them apart based on the strings sound. But with almost zero tweaking (other than a quick volume adjust, which might not be perfect) the MSS fits into the SSS space rather easily. I'd probably adjust the tail length if I wanted them to be even closer.

Also I find it interesting that I didn't pick a preset designed for violins ... it's simply "The Hall" ... there are also lots of other presets.
 
Soundbed said:
Hi, I haven't read this whole thread, but I'm playing around with the Essentials version of the AIR Reverb.

Here is MSS + AIR Reverb Essentials
vs
SSS Performance Legato Default settings

MSS Violins 1 Close mics only, EQ off, touch of "Brightness" added from front panel UI, going in mono to the Spitfire AIR Studio Reverb Essentials on just "The Hall" preset, insert, mixed at 23%.

SSS (Spitfire Symphonic Strings) Performance legato of violins 1 default playing nearly the exact same midi (the midi was adjusted so the performances are the same).

Blind test:

View attachment SSS.mp3
View attachment MSS.mp3

SSS then MSS

Anyone who knows the sound of the two will be able to tell them apart based on the strings sound. But with almost zero tweaking (other than a quick volume adjust, which might not be perfect) the MSS fits into the SSS space rather easily. I'd probably adjust the tail length if I wanted them to be even closer.

Also I find it interesting that I didn't pick a preset designed for violins ... it's simply "The Hall" ... there are also lots of other presets.
Click to expand...
I liked MSS version more because there's no fall in reverb itself like in SSS version where you can hear how modwheel turns reverb down with the sound of strings together) (not reverb of course but the sound of the hall's reflections)
 
Soundbed said:
Hi, I haven't read this whole thread, but I'm playing around with the Essentials version of the AIR Reverb.

Here is MSS + AIR Reverb Essentials
vs
SSS Performance Legato Default settings

MSS Violins 1 Close mics only, EQ off, touch of "Brightness" added from front panel UI, going in mono to the Spitfire AIR Studio Reverb Essentials on just "The Hall" preset, insert, mixed at 23%.

SSS (Spitfire Symphonic Strings) Performance legato of violins 1 default playing nearly the exact same midi (the midi was adjusted so the performances are the same).

Blind test:

View attachment SSS.mp3
View attachment MSS.mp3

SSS then MSS

Anyone who knows the sound of the two will be able to tell them apart based on the strings sound. But with almost zero tweaking (other than a quick volume adjust, which might not be perfect) the MSS fits into the SSS space rather easily. I'd probably adjust the tail length if I wanted them to be even closer.

Also I find it interesting that I didn't pick a preset designed for violins ... it's simply "The Hall" ... there are also lots of other presets.
Click to expand...
I'm unfamiliar with either, not having bought into the Spitfire universe and not owning MSS. I could immediately tell which one had the baked-in hall. By the way, when the second Db plays, it has a massive resonance, more so on the MSS example.
 
Soundbed said:
Hi, I haven't read this whole thread, but I'm playing around with the Essentials version of the AIR Reverb.

Here is MSS + AIR Reverb Essentials
vs
SSS Performance Legato Default settings

MSS Violins 1 Close mics only, EQ off, touch of "Brightness" added from front panel UI, going in mono to the Spitfire AIR Studio Reverb Essentials on just "The Hall" preset, insert, mixed at 23%.

SSS (Spitfire Symphonic Strings) Performance legato of violins 1 default playing nearly the exact same midi (the midi was adjusted so the performances are the same).

Blind test:

View attachment SSS.mp3
View attachment MSS.mp3

SSS then MSS

Anyone who knows the sound of the two will be able to tell them apart based on the strings sound. But with almost zero tweaking (other than a quick volume adjust, which might not be perfect) the MSS fits into the SSS space rather easily. I'd probably adjust the tail length if I wanted them to be even closer.

Also I find it interesting that I didn't pick a preset designed for violins ... it's simply "The Hall" ... there are also lots of other presets.
Click to expand...
I guessed right which is which, but for sending in a mono signal I still find it to be an impressive result. Thanks for the demo!
 
clisma said:
I'm unfamiliar with either, not having bought into the Spitfire universe and not owning MSS. I could immediately tell which one had the baked-in hall. By the way, when the second Db plays, it has a massive resonance, more so on the MSS example.
Click to expand...
For discerning ears like yours, I wonder how much closer one could get them to sound, or rather, get the MSS to sound more “baked in”. I’m thinking of not using the close mics, trying the stereo signal input, adjusting the performance even more, playing with the preset a little more.

What would you say “gave it away”?

Or conversely, what might make the AIR reverb sound more “baked in” that I could try?
 
Petrucci said:
I liked MSS version more because there's no fall in reverb itself like in SSS version where you can hear how modwheel turns reverb down with the sound of strings together) (not reverb of course but the sound of the hall's reflections)
Click to expand...
I know exactly what you mean. The actual SSS (Kontakt version) almost has an unnatural tail drop off, coinciding with my mod wheel reduction.
 
Soundbed said:
For discerning ears like yours, I wonder how much closer one could get them to sound, or rather, get the MSS to sound more “baked in”. I’m thinking of not using the close mics, trying the stereo signal input, adjusting the performance even more, playing with the preset a little more.

What would you say “gave it away”?

Or conversely, what might make the AIR reverb sound more “baked in” that I could try?
Click to expand...
Not sure I would call my ears discerning myself, but for whatever reason I did immediately hear the difference this morning. I admit to hearing it less pronounced this evening. But what I am noticing is more of a build-up from note to note in the MSS example, which makes sense, considering the dynamic of what's happening with reverb on top of samples rather than it being recorded into the samples. Not sure precisely how I would try to tackle that if at all, considering it doesn't sound bad, just more pronounced. Perhaps a little pre-delay, or shorter tail might steer you in the right direction.
 
Soundbed said:
I know exactly what you mean. The actual SSS (Kontakt version) almost has an unnatural tail drop off, coinciding with my mod wheel reduction.
Click to expand...
Does this mean that you could get a more natural sound by adding a small amount of the room to the SSS version? Not that I have SSS, MSS or Air reverb to try it!
 
Soundbed said:
I’m thinking of not using the close mics, trying the stereo signal input, adjusting the performance even more, playing with the preset a little more.

What would you say “gave it away”?
Click to expand...

For me the second one sounded like it has the "unpleasantness of a close mic signal", but with added reverb. So I'd start by trying to get a smoother source signal into the reverb. And then after finding a solution for that I'd try using a match EQ in mid-side mode (ozone?) to match the frequency curve of the full signal including reverb to the wet SSS signal.
 
I bought AIR Studios Reverb Essentials yesterday, and I keep running into little things that make me really unsure of it. I was hoping that someone with more experience could help out.

The first thing that stood out was the preset "Acoustic Gtr Space" which the description says is a "Stereo Acoustic Guitar space with near room mics only..." So near room mics, but the sound source is pressed up against a wall on the opposite side of the room, far behind where other players would be. That's not how I imagined recording an acoustic guitar. Maybe this is meant to be a special effect.

In "Big Tambourine" the sound source is also pressed up against a wall and now apparently pointed into that wall away from the mics. Considering the name and long stretch settings, this is probably meant to be a special effect, but it still looks so odd that it doesn't feel intentional.

The sound source in "Vanilla Drum Room" is against the same wall, again pointing into it. Maybe the direction doesn't matter, but it does look very strange on the diagram.

These presets are all in the "AIR" family and not in the families that correspond to the instruments. Is the AIR family meant to be special effects?

Then there's the EQ. I guess the full version of the plugin gives you a built-in EQ. At least one of the presets mentions it in the description. Another one, "Detailed Percussion Room" doesn't mention it, but sounds like it's doing a high pass filter on the input. Am I missing an indication of the EQ in the GUI?

I found a handful of other concerns after just an hour of poking around. Some of them were just simple typos, not a big deal. Though the fact that the "The Hall" preset has the exact same description as "The Hall - Layout B" is concerning. They both claim to be the reversed layout.

I keep finding presets that seem like special effects, and I don't know how to find presets that would sound more natural. This has all led to me not trusting the presets. Considering that most of the control in Essentials is done by changing presets, that's a real bad situation to find myself in.

This was way too long, sorry.
Thanks for any help or advice!
 
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