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Adachi: Important update, 8Dio threatens reviewers and competing devs

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Amazing watching someone simultaneously claim that they don't make legal threats while then turning around and making a string of implied legal threats against multiple people.

Defamation has a strict legal definition.
Distributing kontakt scripts is perfectly legal.
Writing on a message board is also legal, particularly when a person is speaking truthfully
 
tawnia said:
My last correspondences to Cory was love & light. He explained. We healed. It’s between us. No attorneys involved. It was very friendly.
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So ... no threat was ever made? And the sleepness night he talks about was just him being silly, and not understanding love and light when it's being given to him? Seems odd, given that he made a video about it afterwards, and has yet to delete that video, but ... okay.
 
FireGS said:
I think you have to be able to prove financial loss
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I hope that there's a before and an after this thread regarding their profits. The music industry has way too many narcissistic predators and I would welcome for one to silently disappear.
 
Daren Audio said:
Could someone point out where exactly Impact Soundworks have said anything remotely negative?
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I think his point is they are allowing and seemingly supporting their employee publicly disparage a direct competitor. On a platform (and with his explicit endorsement) owned by yet another direct competitor. In a thread that’s gotten so hostile by now that nothing they say or do would make any difference. Etc.
 
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To prove prima facie defamation, a plaintiff must show four things: 1) a false statement purporting to be fact; 2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person; 3) fault amounting to at least negligence; and 4) damages

So basically you have to *prove* that something said was not true (hard to do, especially if its criticism), and prove that it cost you money.

Sooooo... I mean, all of you saying you wont buy 8dio products *could* be used as proof of damages, but considering that you can't really prove a *direct* and measurable loss, its really hard. AND all of you would have to be conspiring to lie about 8Dio. All of you. Actual malice.

I dunno, IANAL.
 
Troels Folmann said:
Hi everybody,

I have no idea how to respond to this thread. All I see is a bunch of wild allegations and speculations, and I just shake my head - and remind myself to send all the haters my love. Yes, love!

And just to clarify …
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True. Most of us have no idea what has gone down. But do you see a problem with several well known members of the community claim negative things about working with 8dio? We will never know whether they are written independently of eachother or not. But still - a huge red flag for many.

Anyway, being accused by people online is a terrible experience irregardless how true or untrue it is. I understand if you become defensive - many of us would act the same way. It's human nature. Just a friendly advice from someone who works with people for a living: it is much more difficult to stay mad at someone who is vulnerable rather than argumentative. Deal with this however you like. I personally think sending love is a great idea, and especially if we leave it at that.
 
youngpokie said:
I think his point is they are allowing and seemingly supporting their employee publicly disparage a direct competitor. On a platform (and with his explicit endorsement) owned by yet another direct competitor. In a thread that’s gotten so hostile by now that nothing they say or do would make any difference. Etc.
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Nonsense. There's no competition. RealiBanjo is unbeatable
 
I would like to see honest and critical reviews, walkthroughs on products. I think that's one of the tasks these are supposed to fulfill. Otherwise I expect them to be clearly declared as advertising for a product.

I really appreciate Cory's videos, and if they don't happen anymore because a manufacturer doesn't like the criticism, then I think that's unfortunate. After all, there were others who went after Cory (regards to Nick!) because they didn't like the video or felt it was unfair or untrue.

Bad reviews happen. But sometimes maybe because the person who created a walkthrough misunderstood something or didn't use it correctly.
Then it is desirable if the manufacturer, if it is important to him, shows constructive with it and points out the correct operation or how it is better. Also for it there are examples I would like to emphasize positively (greeting to Ben!).

And if we are honest, there are not just a few sample libraries from different developers that have errors or technically do not meet the expectations or taste. Some devs provide updates, bug fixes quickly, some slowly, and some not at all. The latter I feel is a bad business practice, because the end user has no chance to return a product due to the license terms.

And bad taste is a personal thing. Sh*t happens.

Aren't we all grown up enough to be able to deal with criticism? Nobody is perfect. Reviewers not, sample libraries certainly not and I just ask that there is a fair communicative exchange.

Dear developers, take and treat your customers with respect. You live from us, and some from your products.
 
Mike Greene said:
So ... no threat was ever made? And the sleepness night he talks about was just him being silly, and not understanding love and light when it's being given to him? Seems odd, given that he made a video about it afterwards, and has yet to delete that video, but ... okay.
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I think this thread got out of hand as it's a combination of Sarah's issues with 8dio (Current) and Cory's issues (among others) from multiple years ago which may or may not have many other developments that I feel don't relate much to this instance. (As those are the ones with more serious allegations) Much of it to my knowledge is speculation or based on the initial video from many years ago. Feels a little unfair to directly assume stuff

Edit: - Added some additional "takes" below:
As for Sarah's issues with 8dio I don't really see 8dio as being a particularly bad actor here (at least to the same degree). 8Dio to my understanding never suggested a price target, and to be honest I feel like it's totally in their right to not want to pay for a number that they don't find financially agreeable. After all they never contracted the work to begin, and didn't have any developmental stake in it (to my understanding) and they have more intricate knowledge of their company's financials.

There definitely should've been more clear-cut communication to establish a proposed number *prior* to 6 months, but I don't really think it's them stringing you along. Of course I don't know the full situation and there's probably more factors at play

They certainly aren't helping their side with their wording and threats in these posts though. Makes it hard to really offer any support. I think there are many more substantial reasons to critique 8Dio and their treatment of others as those have less speculation ingrained in it.
 
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Why should those who have been wronged have to neuter the way they express what happened in their own words, when the other side was free to choose any words in the book to bully/abuse (not speaking about Sarah's case here)? This makes no sense. "Even if it's true, you could've been gentler." It doesn't work that way.
 
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I've deleted a number of posts debating the pros and cons of locking the thread (along with a bunch of other recent posts on tangential topics) because I don't want the thread to get overblown. My theory being that interest will more likely die down on its own if we don't add additional topics.

I'll probably lock the thread in the next day or two, but I want to leave it open for now, because my guess is Troels and/or Tawnia will want to post again.
 
It's unfortunate to see what's happened here, and I suspect if egos were set aside something could've been worked out in this situation.

Be that as it may, there's also another way to look at it - Sarah's work helped 8DIO sell more copies of Anthology / legacy Adagio, and it also got Sarah on the map as an excellent scripter and sample wrangler, which possibly aided in her getting hired by another dev. And, selfishly, it got all of us a FANTASTIC legato strings library!

...Or maybe it's just the pot talking... :whistling:
 
Someone posted that other than SP, 8Dio has not released much lately that’s actually new. I wonder if the financials are just tough for 8Dio or tied up in future projects and why they were not as open about meeting what might be viewed as industry standards for fees on several of the complaints here?

This is such a shame as it was Sarah who introduced me to 8Dio products and I loved what I saw, the demos, so many products and Troel’s fantastic videos (maybe my favorite company videos out of any developer in this entire industry).

Sarah did something amazing with this work and I’m glad opportunities have come as a result from this, because it is very much so deserved for her to have these opportunities and more.

However the reply here by Troel’s is passive aggressive, tone deaf and dismissive of a lot of issues mentioned in this thread. I can understand why Troel’s feels attacked and maybe got emotionally defensive, this is his business after all. But this is exactly how not to deal with PR either.

I am personally conflicted on getting anything from 8Dio in the future if they are treating some people with legal threats so cavalierly.
 
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So, I'm sitting here thinking that no matter who says what, I really don't objectively know what really happened here, and a lot of people are piling on without having the full, unadulterated story—which we will probably never get.

I think it's kind of a mirror of our society lately, where someone makes an accusation and everyone just assumes that accusation is true. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. But I have no idea what the truth is in this case, nor am I going to try to decipher it. I only wish the best for everyone involved, and have no interest in condemning anyone.

Trial by forum is a bad idea. I suggest we all take a breath and move on.
 
robgb said:
So, I'm sitting here thinking that no matter who says what, I really don't objectively know what really happened here, and a lot of people are piling on without having the full, unadulterated story—which we will probably never get.

I think it's kind of a mirror of our society lately, where someone makes an accusation and everyone just assumes that accusation is true. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. But I have no idea what the truth is in this case, nor am I going to try to decipher it. I only wish the best for everyone involved, and have no interest in condemning anyone.

Trial by forum is a bad idea. I suggest we all take a breath and move on.
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If you ignore a lot of the back and forth in the aftermath and listen to the video from Cory, it's a bit more clear. Cory described the threats of litigation and another threat of using other material from social media as a form of smear campaign against him. And this was all because of a review Cory left on the 8Dio website. Then @EvilDragon added another claim to the mix of litigation threats many years prior. I believe Sarah's frustrations were just summarized a page or 2 back.

And 8DIO has a response that now neither confirms nor denies these accusations directly.

Trial by forum is not needed. Pitchforks are not needed. This is information others have brought to light. Now each of us can choose to either believe the accusations and not support 8DIO, not believe the accusations and support 8DIO, believe the accusations and support 8DIO (weird choice), or ignore this thread entirely.
 
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