Patchboard public release

[zolhof]

I finished setting up my Jade template on Cubase using Art Conductor, from what I can tell it's not possible to bulk edit attributes on Patchboard?

No, it's not possible to select multiple patches and tag them in one go. I use a json editor called XiMpLe for that, it opens files on a table grid view, and offers a lot of useful copy+paste and find+replace features that speed up the editing process.

https://ximple.cz
Here's a quick example of Jade (timestamps on video description), it took me about 10 minutes to do the whole library. I wish more developers would include the key ranges on the manual!




It's pretty straight forward once you get the gist of it. Make sure to backup your database first, in case something goes wrong. On Windows, patches.json is located in C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local\Patchboard

I would love to hear how folks are doing this?

 

[robgb]

I'm talking about managing thousands of tracks with unique articulations and controllers. Being modular on the spot. OSC is an awesome piece of software but you will never be able to do that. The best use of OSC I've seen is Flow+, and still, it's too much hassle to be used in a serious, cut-throat, time-sensitive scenario.

No offense, but if you have thousands of tracks, you're doing something wrong. My opinion, of course.

 

[Toecutter]

No offense, but if you have thousands of tracks, you're doing something wrong. My opinion, of course.

No offense, but you are such a troll. You have no idea what you are talking about, go check some pros templates like John Powell, Trevor Morris, Jeff Russo, Jason Graves, Alan Silvestri, Hans Zimmer... they can have thousands of tracks ready to go.

 

[Bender-offender]

Do I really need to edit patches one by one after expression maps are imported? I finished setting up my Jade template on Cubase using Art Conductor, from what I can tell it's not possible to bulk edit attributes on Patchboard?

I recently started using Patchboard and this is one of the things that has been troubling. In my case, I’ll create a Patch for something like Cinematic Studio Brass (which uses the exact same custom keyswitches for all instruments), duplicate and link each CSB instrument, then later I’ll realize I forgot to create a Mode or something I’d like on each CSB instrument. I then need to delete all Patches for CSB except one, then duplicate and relink all over again. So bulk editing would be awesome. Or, an alternative would be being able to copy certain modules from other Patches, such as Triggers, colors, Modes, etc.

Another, easier way to make editing Patches quicker is to make the right-click menu options have key commands. It’s kind of a pain needing to right-click on each Patch to do anything to it.

 

[Toecutter]

I use a json editor called XiMpLe for that, it opens files on a table grid view, and offers a lot of useful copy+paste and find+replace features that speed up the editing process.

I'm checking out this program, the nested data manipulation is awesome but how do you open the table view to replace key switches? I'm pressing control T and nothing happens.

nvm I was clicking in the wrong place Dude thanks for the tip, fantastic little program!

 

[Toecutter]

I recently started using Patchboard and this is one of the things that has been troubling. In my case, I’ll create a Patch for something like Cinematic Studio Brass (which uses the exact same custom keyswitches for all instruments), duplicate and link each CSB instrument, then later I’ll realize I forgot to create a Mode or something I’d like on each CSB instrument. I then need to delete all Patches for CSB except one, then duplicate and relink all over again. So bulk editing would be awesome. Or, an alternative would be being able to copy certain modules from other Patches, such as Triggers, colors, Modes, etc.

Another, easier way to make editing Patches quicker is to make the right-click menu options have key commands. It’s kind of a pain needing to right-click on each Patch to do anything to it.

Yep I would like to see that too but I think that would require some major rewrite to Patchboard? maybe @mrmiller could chime in. Why are you deleting all patches? Wouldn't be easier to just add the missing stuff? I'm testing Ximple and it's ridiculously fast to do this sort of edit, not even annoyed anymore XD

 

[Bender-offender]

Yep I would like to see that too but I think that would require some major rewrite to Patchboard? maybe @mrmiller could chime in. Why are you deleting all patches? Wouldn't be easier to just add the missing stuff? I'm testing Ximple and it's ridiculously fast to do this sort of edit, not even annoyed anymore XD

I guess it depends on the patch. If there’s one thing to fix, then I of course do it for each patch. If I add a bunch of things, it’s usually quicker to delete all the others and start over.

 

[mrmiller]

I guess it depends on the patch. If there’s one thing to fix, then I of course do it for each patch. If I add a bunch of things, it’s usually quicker to delete all the others and start over.

There are some features in the works that will make this part easier to start with, basically being able to select things in the Catalog or Project views. That's the first barrier for any sort of bulk editing, to even be able to select N patches and then click edit or delete or whatever. Once the selection model is there, I can add conveniences like keyboard shortcuts like there are in the patch editor itself.

If you're starting fully from scratch with a blank slate, I'd recommend just trashing the database itself (patches.json) that's mentioned above.

Yep I would like to see that too but I think that would require some major rewrite to Patchboard? maybe @mrmiller could chime in.

Not a major rewrite but it's an entirely new editor view. The concept of batch editing is kinda complicated, because you need to be able to maintain and display differences without overwriting them. It's not as simple as just adding batch editing to the existing one. It would be a lot easier if it's simple data like the metadta for the library and developer or the color: I can just show the value if it's the same or if it's different, display "These are different". And in either case allow you to select a value. See something like iTunes and the way it handles bulk editing MP3 metadata.

For something like the articulations, faders and modes, that's much more complicated... you probably want to be able to bulk edit any that are identical. But what if they're in a different order? And how to display and edit different lists of articulations? We also need fine granularity, because you might want to bulk change the name even if the key ranges are different.

I definitely encourage playing with the raw JSON database. I chose the format in part so it would be human-readable and editable with existing tools, both for myself and others. But it's too tech-oriented in the long-term for what's striving to be a tool for people of all technical skill levels.

All this is to say I've thought a lot about it and it's near the top of my wishlist. I've started laying the groundwork internally with the aforementioned ability to select things, though I haven't enabled it publicly yet.

And then the next step is building an elegant UX for the batch editing. If anyone has any favorite examples of software that does that, I'd love some inspiration. I haven't seen any I'm particularly blown away by, because it really is a kinda thorny problem.

 

[dylanmixer]

@mrmiller Are you guys planning to release any walkthrough videos or such? All I can find is the 2 minute trailer from 2 years ago.

 

[robgb]

No offense, but you are such a troll. You have no idea what you are talking about, go check some pros templates like John Powell, Trevor Morris, Jeff Russo, Jason Graves, Alan Silvestri, Hans Zimmer... they can have thousands of tracks ready to go.

And they're John Powell and Trevor Morris, etc. My point is that if you really think you need thousands of tracks to make great film music, then, to my mind, you're approaching it the wrong way. But you do you.

 

[mrmiller]

@mrmiller Are you guys planning to release any walkthrough videos or such? All I can find is the 2 minute trailer from 2 years ago.

The guys are just me Walkthrough videos are a great idea! They're unfortunately a bit out of my wheelhouse and thus would take me a lot of time to plan and execute on. I'm really short on spare time at the moment so I've been prioritizing features and fixes instead. I don't have any immediate plans to put any video walkthroughs together but I could be swayed.

 

[dylanmixer]

The guys are just me Walkthrough videos are a great idea! They're unfortunately a bit out of my wheelhouse and thus would take me a lot of time to plan and execute on. I'm really short on spare time at the moment so I've been prioritizing features and fixes instead. I don't have any immediate plans to put any video walkthroughs together but I could be swayed.

Holy crap! Well thanks for the transparency. I feel like your app is going to generate a lot of buzz considering it offers a lot that no other can at the moment. I know people like me enjoy watching walkthroughs before investing $500-$1K. But that's as good a reason to not to do it as any! You must be swamped. Maybe another kind soul who has already purchased could make a video demonstrating some of the things it could do.

 

[mrmiller]

Holy crap! Well thanks for the transparency. I feel like your app is going to generate a lot of buzz considering it offers a lot that no other can at the moment. I know people like me enjoy watching walkthroughs before investing $500-$1K. But that's as good a reason to not to do it as any! You must be swamped. Maybe another kind soul who has already purchased could make a video demonstrating some of the things it could do.

Absolutely! One of the interesting aspects of the people who have had been working with Patchboard for the past 3 years is they're almost all full-time professional composers. It's been great because they've supported Patchboard's development. Their various workflows and needs require me to add new features and options. It's not so helpful for things like community or demonstration videos, though.

I'd be delighted to see people sharing patches and videos and stuff and will do whatever I can to facilitate that. This thread has been great already in that regard. I had no idea about XiMple, for instance! And I've gotten some great feedback about the latest VSL instruments I wasn't aware of. And that I should block off some time to make some walkthrough videos

 

[zolhof]

No offense, but if you have thousands of tracks, you're doing something wrong. My opinion, of course.

No worries. Let me offer you some insight on why we do things the way we do. Most instruments are very project specific, that's why we use track archives and VEPro unpreserved for everything not in the main template, which comprises a small fraction of the catalog. I still need quick access to all libraries at any given moment. It's a hybrid of multis and one articulation per track, for layering purposes. To give you some perspective, the Berlin series alone can go over 2000 tracks, not counting time machine patches. Gravity, Damage, UIST, are true behemoths, and when you enter the sound design territory, things get unbearably laborious.

Back on topic, that's where Patchboard comes in, offering a very streamlined workflow. It's a one stop shop where I can have each patch indexed, unified controls (one Dashboard to rule them all!) and seamlessly recall a track archive or hidden track. I can't give enough praise to Mike for his work and outstanding support!

 

[robgb]

Back on topic, that's where Patchboard comes in, offering a very streamlined workflow. It's a one stop shop where I can have each patch indexed, unified controls (one Dashboard to rule them all!) and seamlessly recall a track archive or hidden track. I can't give enough praise to Mike for his work and outstanding support!

Ahhh. Okay. I guess because I can already do all this in Reaper and with Open Stage Control, it isn't an issue for me. But I get it now.

 

[Toecutter]

And they're John Powell and Trevor Morris, etc. My point is that if you really think you need thousands of tracks to make great film music, then, to my mind, you're approaching it the wrong way. But you do you.

So you are suggesting those A list composers are approaching it the wrong way? Jason Graves, one of videogame top composers, has more than 3000 tracks in his template, that's what is visible not considering unloaded stuff. Are you suggesting he's approaching it the wrong way too?

Ahhh. Okay. I guess because I can already do all this in Reaper and with Open Stage Control, it isn't an issue for me. But I get it now.

Sorry but I call bullshit. I use a paid OSC template and there's no way to do that. I get it, you work with a small set of sounds but I'm talking big templates here, under minutes, not years. Unless you still have no clue what patchboard is capable of and are talking out of your arse or trolling.

 

[Bender-offender]

There are some features in the works that will make this part easier to start with, basically being able to select things in the Catalog or Project views. That's the first barrier for any sort of bulk editing, to even be able to select N patches and then click edit or delete or whatever. Once the selection model is there, I can add conveniences like keyboard shortcuts like there are in the patch editor itself.

If you're starting fully from scratch with a blank slate, I'd recommend just trashing the database itself (patches.json) that's mentioned above.


Not a major rewrite but it's an entirely new editor view. The concept of batch editing is kinda complicated, because you need to be able to maintain and display differences without overwriting them. It's not as simple as just adding batch editing to the existing one. It would be a lot easier if it's simple data like the metadta for the library and developer or the color: I can just show the value if it's the same or if it's different, display "These are different". And in either case allow you to select a value. See something like iTunes and the way it handles bulk editing MP3 metadata.

For something like the articulations, faders and modes, that's much more complicated... you probably want to be able to bulk edit any that are identical. But what if they're in a different order? And how to display and edit different lists of articulations? We also need fine granularity, because you might want to bulk change the name even if the key ranges are different.

I definitely encourage playing with the raw JSON database. I chose the format in part so it would be human-readable and editable with existing tools, both for myself and others. But it's too tech-oriented in the long-term for what's striving to be a tool for people of all technical skill levels.

All this is to say I've thought a lot about it and it's near the top of my wishlist. I've started laying the groundwork internally with the aforementioned ability to select things, though I haven't enabled it publicly yet.

And then the next step is building an elegant UX for the batch editing. If anyone has any favorite examples of software that does that, I'd love some inspiration. I haven't seen any I'm particularly blown away by, because it really is a kinda thorny problem.

Thanks for the detailed reply! What would help editing Patches quick for the time being would be to have most things accessible by key commands such as all the Patch editing options when you right-click on a patch; importing Logic or Cubase Articulations; “Save and Close” after editing a Patch (and/or “Canceling”); anything else that’s easy to add. For me, this is highly important because I have RSI in my hands and I try to avoid as much mouse-clicking as possible.

As for a bulk editing, some examples that come to mind are the way Pro Tools has batch editing of clip names; the way Cubase/Logic have batch export and how you can select different “aspects” to be in the file names; Logic’s Import Project Setting and the way you can import only certain settings such as Tranform Sets, Environment Layers, specific track types with or without the data, etc; VE Pro’s “Merge Project” is a simple but good one; also VE Pro’s Channel Sets and the way you can save and recall from one instance to another. I’m sure there’s more cool things in other software as well.

 

[Bender-offender]

Thanks for the detailed reply! What would help editing Patches quick for the time being would be to have most things accessible by key commands such as all the Patch editing options when you right-click on a patch; importing Logic or Cubase Articulations; “Save and Close” after editing a Patch (and/or “Canceling”); anything else that’s easy to add. For me, this is highly important because I have RSI in my hands and I try to avoid as much mouse-clicking as possible.

As for a bulk editing, some examples that come to mind are the way Pro Tools has batch editing of clip names; the way Cubase/Logic have batch export and how you can select different “aspects” to be in the file names; Logic’s Import Project Setting and the way you can import only certain settings such as Tranform Sets, Environment Layers, specific track types with or without the data, etc; VE Pro’s “Merge Project” is a simple but good one; also VE Pro’s Channel Sets and the way you can save and recall from one instance to another. I’m sure there’s more cool things in other software as well.

I should mention I mean none of what I've said to be criticism of Patchboard. I feel it's definitely worth it's price because how much quicker I can put together a new multi-instrument. When I'd purchase a new library, I'd dreeeeeeeeeead creating it's Expression Map and keyswitches. I knew I'd lose an entire day doing just that. Patchboard, along with the ability to import Expression Maps, has made this repugnant process much more tolerable. So thanks @mrmiller!

 

[mrmiller]

Thanks for the detailed reply! What would help editing Patches quick for the time being would be to have most things accessible by key commands such as all the Patch editing options when you right-click on a patch; importing Logic or Cubase Articulations; “Save and Close” after editing a Patch (and/or “Canceling”); anything else that’s easy to add. For me, this is highly important because I have RSI in my hands and I try to avoid as much mouse-clicking as possible.

Fortunately, many of these are already available! There definitely need to be more though and I should add some default bindings.
Save: ⌘S
Save and Close: ⌘Return
Import: assign a key binding in System Preferences > Keyboard > Shortcuts > App Shortcuts:

As for a bulk editing, some examples that come to mind are the way Pro Tools has batch editing of clip names; the way Cubase/Logic have batch export and how you can select different “aspects” to be in the file names; Logic’s Import Project Setting and the way you can import only certain settings such as Tranform Sets, Environment Layers, specific track types with or without the data, etc; VE Pro’s “Merge Project” is a simple but good one; also VE Pro’s Channel Sets and the way you can save and recall from one instance to another. I’m sure there’s more cool things in other software as well.

This sounds like two seperate concepts: (1) batch editing and (2) merging / partial importing into an existing patch. The batch editing of lists of things like the articulations is the only thing that gives me pause. I can't recall a good example of a program that does that with lists of items that could be vastly different between the N things being edited together. I've got some ideas but I'm not sure they're brilliant. They'll definitely be workable though.

I should mention I mean none of what I've said to be criticism of Patchboard. I feel it's definitely worth it's price because how much quicker I can put together a new multi-instrument. When I'd purchase a new library, I'd dreeeeeeeeeead creating it's Expression Map and keyswitches. I knew I'd lose an entire day doing just that. Patchboard, along with the ability to import Expression Maps, has made this repugnant process much more tolerable. So thanks @mrmiller!

I definitely didn't take it that way! Now how cool would it be if that Expression Map export I described earlier was a thing so you could avoid the clunky Cubase editor almost altogether... Too many ideas, too little right now

 

[G.Poncelet]

Hi @mrmiller, Patchboard looks great !
Since a few weeks I’m looking for a way to use custom names for the different CC’s I use to control virtual instruments in Logic Pro X.
For example, instead of CC02 « Breath » I’d like to see «Vibrato » in the piano roll, for some tracks.
Smart Controls doesn’t work all the time for that.
Could Patchboard be a solution for that issue, or could you find a way to program it ?
If so, I’d be really interested to get a licence.
Thx !