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Is Hans Zimmer overrated as a composer?

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He’s definitely way underrated as a PR and businessman. He makes music for mainstream films so I don’t see how that question even applies. Ie Film composer is completely different than regular composer. Maybe it’s a bit like Ennio: hyped and appreciated for the obvious and almost conpletely glossed over for many other things.

I really like some of the tracks on Widows. (Is that still Zebra he’s using?) Havent seen the flick yet.
 
ism said:
Well said. I'll amplify that even in the worst of the HZS toxic death spiral, there was never a sense that anyone on any side was arguing against the brilliance of Hans Zimmer. I would go so far as to frame it as multiple competing visions of where rests the true brilliance of 'Hans Zimmer'. Only complicated (in interesting ways) by Hans himself weighing in on his understanding of the 'Hans Zimmer' brand ('I have no idea what this is' is I think what he said) that didn't necessarily have all that much to do with any of the iconographies of 'Hans Zimmer' being thrown around.

We can argue over niggles like is Hans a Brilliant Composer vs Brilliant film Composers vs Brilliant Storyteller vs Brilliant Driving Ms Daisy composer vs Brilliant Batman composers vs Brilliant sound designer vs Brilliant other variation on this set of themes. But I don't think that brilliance in anywhere in doubt.
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So with all this brilliance - and me not even denying it - I think it shoud be fairly safe if someone argues that the chord progressions are not that innovative/creative - as a personal opinion. In relation to all the hype. Theres 100 messages about the genius of HZ in the thread, and hardly anything too critical. If that would upset HZ it would sound like a joke.

I understand I poked a bees nest here, well, I have to admit it also feels a bit embarrassing to see this thread running this active. I could change the provoking title, but I’ll let it stay for now. It was a spontane reaction after 1h of listening to Zimmer. And not in context of movies. I will let this thread pass for my side, unless theres some new development showing up. Thanks again for the interest.
 
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PeterN said:
So with all this brilliance - and me not even denying it - I think it shoud be fairly safe if someone argues that the chord progressions are not that innovative/creative - as a personal opinion. In relation to all the hype. Theres 100 messages about the genius of HZ in the thread, and hardly anything too critical. If that would upset HZ it would sound like a joke.

I understand I poked a bees nest here, well, I have to admit it also feels a bit embarrassing to see this thread running this active. I could change the provoking title, but I’ll let it stay for now. It was a spontane reaction after 1h of listening to Zimmer. And not in context of movies. I will let this thread pass for my side, unless theres some new development showing up. Thanks again for the interest.
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Didn’t mean to dismiss the idea that it’s interesting to consider Han’s chord structures.

Maybe a more general way to put it is I think it’s an interesting question where the location of the Hans’ brilliance is. In Dunkirk, it’s probably not in the chord structures, but more in - I don’t know, maybe the sound design? , or maybe is a kind of quasi-neo-classical orchestrational dimension? In driving Ms Daisy - well you’ve got me interested to go back and listen more carefully :)

But I do think that part of the brilliance of Han’s is the way he he finds way to do brilliant things with different dimensions of sound. And if its definitely not always the chords. And definite not always sound design. The thin Red line had quite an influence on before I even knew that theis Hans Zimmer person was supposed to be famous. (Nor did I know at the time that I was in fact already familiar with his work via ‘video killed the radio star’)

There are sensitivity here b/c of some unfortunate recent vi-c history, but there’s still interesting things to be discussed.

Actually it’s not just sensitivities local to vi-c, but there’s a real Williams v Zimmer dichotomy that’s become emblematic for major changes in the film industry, including the aesthetics of the music, but also deeper semiotics of how music collaborates with images. Which isn’t what your your talking about here, but is nonetheless a sensitivity that’s always going to be present on this kind of thread.
 
The problem is especially with this title give us a perspective of the wider mind set of people who put ratings on composers.

They seem to believe every piece of music from a well known composer must give them goose bumps and that's just not the case,

Whilst you maybe let down on some of the compositions of HZ others would have been delighted but that is just life.

Not all the pieces of music from a well known composer will hit the spot, perhaps not even half, but the ones that do hit the spot will stay with us and have us playing it back in our thoughts for a long time even years .
 
novaburst said:
The problem is especially with this title give us a perspective of the wider mind set of people who put ratings on composers.
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So let me yet reply to that, I dont see anything neccessarily wrong with that. As long as its within certain boundaries - and not downright dishing, abusive or ridiculing. This is common in art - one poet critizises another. It can be in goodwill too - and its not always like that.

Taking Beatles as example again. When Dylan commented on Lennons lyrics, it took a whole step forward. Glad he did it - Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds, would have been ”Love you Lucy” otherwise.
 
Chr!s said:
I'd be happy to be over-rated and rich as fuck to the point people hate me.

You know, like Nickelback
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:rofl:

Back to topic, the correct question would be: Are Hans Zimmer's ghostwriters overrated as composers?

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HelixK said:
:rofl:

Back to topic, the right question would be: Are Hans Zimmer's ghostwriters overrated as composers?

giphy.gif
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This whole "ghostwriting" thing...I'm not sure what people call "ghostwriting" is any different from what Alfred Newman (an undeniably great film composer) often had to do because of being super busy...that is, relegate certain duties to others to help expediate music for that specific film.

I know Alfred often had to had help with orchestration (he could more than do it, it was just a time thing, as mentioned earlier)...he'd have Ken Darby and others help with the choirs. Back then, I think it was more everyone pitching it to help make the best movie possible.

Perhaps someone can offer me more specific information concerning this "ghostwriting" thing. In the case of Newman, he received full credit for composition for good reason...he wrote the music. Everything else was just getting it ready in a hurry for hopefully mass consumption. @Rctec
 
Parsifal666 said:
This whole "ghostwriting" thing...I'm not sure what people call "ghostwriting" is any different from what Alfred Newman (an undeniably great film composer) often had to do because of being super busy...that is, relegate certain duties to others to help expediate music for that specific film.

I know Alfred often had to had help with orchestration (he could more than do it, it was just a time thing, as mentioned earlier)...he'd have Ken Darby and others help with the choirs. Back then, I think it was more everyone pitching it to help make the best movie possible.

Perhaps someone can offer me more specific information concerning this "ghostwriting" thing. In the case of Newman, he received full credit for composition for good reason...he wrote the music. Everything else was just getting it ready in a hurry for hopefully mass consumption. @Rctec
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Uncredited composers were used frequently during the studio era. For instance, several composers—some quite famous in their own right—contributed cues to Rebecca and a cue from an earlier film Steiner had scored for Selznick was also used in the film, though the score is credit to Waxman alone. Full details can be found in the little book Neumeyer and Platte wrote on the score for Scarecrow Press. Contracts for the work are in the Selznick papers. Similar use of uncredited composers happened when Steiner scored Gone with the Wind. There was nothing especially unusual about the practice of uncredited composing, and it's hardly hidden, though Hollywood didn't see any advantage to advertise the practice, just like it saw little advantage to advertise that it frequently used voice doubles when its stars sang.
 
PeterN said:
Went through an hour long compilation of Zimmers compositions and, yes, while there are some interesting and creative compositions (e.g. “now we are free”), plenty (I find) is simple chord progressions with excellent sound design.

Not trying to poke on Zimmer here, and with all respect, but what is the opinion in the community?

I know Verta has criticism on the unrealistic compositions, from an orchestral perspective, but thats not the issue here really, could it be that Zimmer just does quite simple chord progressions sound amazingly good in the commercial field?

Is this question allowed to ask, or am I going too close to something holy here?
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Complexity does not translate to better music, far from it.

Hanz always seems find the right recipe for a scene..isn't that what you want from a great film composer.
 
I think we’re not going to solve the simple vs complex problem today, but Einstein’s dictum of “Everything should be made as simple as possible - but not simpler”, remembering that both sides of this equation are equally complex, seems to be as relevant to music as to physics.
 
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