Consona
Senior Member
The strings sound sooo good here. Is it really the same room? Is the difference just in the mics used?
A New Chapter from Spitfire Audio...
- Thread starter pfmusic
- Start date
The strings sound sooo good here. Is it really the same room? Is the difference just in the mics used?
Brian Nowak
Active Member
And yet, composers continue to ask for companies to develop libraries that give them the capability to shape more convincing lines in more functional ways.
I'm not saying it's the case here, as the verdict is still out - they're so brand new.
But it's very easy to make individual articulations sound at least passable. It's more difficult to make quick transitions between different articulation types sound natural. That's where the devil's playground is with samples. It can really expose weaknesses in the way a library is put together.
I become wary when there seems to be a complete avoidance of realistic passages in the contextual demos of products, because even in my short bit of time in sample land I've learned developers will avoid anything that doesn't make their products sound absolutely best.
After finally listening in my studio (minor dog medical issues prevented me from going into my basement as I cared for my dear pooch the last few days), I do think these samples sound quite good. But while having a large number of articulation types is great, if I can't reasonably string (har har) those together in convincing ways it very much depreciates the value of the library for me.
This is something I've noticed with Spitfire demos for some time now. At least throw us a friggin bone and give us one contextual, or a series of passages on video with programmed realistic writing so we can be sure the library is workable in this fashion.
Some parts of demos sound wonderful and some other parts don't sound good at all, they seem to have managed to package both extremes in this library
I will personally hold on to the purchase until there are some user demos available in the public space. Avoiding the mistake of buying their solo strings library and ending up deleting it due to the (lack of proper) legato implementation and weird vibrato control. This library looks interesting but I'm not quite convinced at this stage.
I will personally hold on to the purchase until there are some user demos available in the public space. Avoiding the mistake of buying their solo strings library and ending up deleting it due to the (lack of proper) legato implementation and weird vibrato control. This library looks interesting but I'm not quite convinced at this stage.
Consona
Senior Member
I think a lot of composers here ask for "musical" libraries in the age of spiccati patterns and thumpy synths because they are more musically literate than an average TV drama producer, they care about musicality and expression in their music even when using just samples, etc. Maybe composers from Spitfire subscribe to another musical ideology, but for people who like more classical approach, convincing vivid lines is where the music lives, basically.
There are two things to the "sound of this library". First, the actual sound, which feels rather stark to me, in comparison to something like Herrmann Toolkit, where the strings sound rich even though it was recorded in the same studio and it's also a smaller string section. Second, its "musicality", the performance in the samples themselves, the way legato flows, etc. I hope they'll release some demos where they show how agile the legato is and where they ride the modwheel like there's no tomorrow.
Vik
Vi-k
Two different ideologies maybe, but.... while non-vib long notes sometimes is exactly what is needed, I believe that in general, nobody want's lifeless samples. NB: I'm not saying that SStS has such samples, I have heard too little to have any opinion about this library. And since vibrato/legato - and note attacks (and ends) - are very important ingredients in orchestral string instruments, they'll probably post more demos soon, with more detailed examples showing the legato functionality etc. Meanwhile, I'll listen to some of the YouTube clips and try to play the same stuff with my main libs.
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Brian Nowak
Active Member
I would assume it's due to different recording methods, including microphones and the fact that BHTK features group recordings vs individual sections. And yes, I'm hopeful that they'll release some demos where we see a bit more pep, for sure. But based off their last few library releases I can't say I'm particularly hopeful.
The problem I foresee is that the types of people who will auto-buy this are likely the types who will likely imitate the material already displayed by SF, so I doubt I'll be able to responsibly take advantage of this intro price.
Hanu_H
Senior Member
I think that the strength of drier libraries is the possibility to script them better and make different articulations flow together better. If you think about Sample Modelling brass, it's the most playable library I have. You can throw anything at it and it will manage. But the sound is not always right for the job. Spitfire have made a lot of libraries but most of them are recorded in Air Lyndhurst with a huge hall. That makes certain articulations sound great and some not so great. I am a bit disappointed to say but I don't think that Spitfire's scripting is on the bar with some of the other companies. The whole interface reminds me to one of their first library release, Spitfire Solo Strings. I am not a big fan of having so many different sustain patches and special articulations when that time and energy could have been used to make a multi functional, great sounding legato patch and maybe add some staccatos in there as well. Nowdays when I see a library with this many articulations it kind of makes me think that this is a bit poor design. All of these special articulations sound great on their own and are easy to record, but what is the actual usability of them? It would make them a lot useful if you could crossfade between different special articulations and have legatos in them, etc. Now you can use them for pads and block chords but it would be a lot better if you could use them like the real player would use them. I think that many of the new Spitfire libraries have snapshots of a great sounds and they are kind of stuck with the idea about the Spitfire sound. If you make a core string library for your new chapter, make the core articulations the best you can and skip all the nonsense special articulations. And if you really need to make those, you can make a expansion with special articulations later. I still think that the price is definitely right for the library and I actually like how the cellos and basses sound in the demos and videos. Spitfire has taken a different path if you compare them to other companies. When almost every other developer tries to perfect their legato scripting, so it can play anything. Or record many different length shorts, to give you possibilities. Spitfire gives you basic articulation set(that can't compete with the other offerings) and records a lot of these artistic Spitfirey longs, that sound good, but most people don't really have any use of.
Sorry about the long post and some ranting. I was kind of excited about this library and would have wished it to be more of an every day workhorse than yet another artistic Spitfire library.
-Hannes
Sorry about the long post and some ranting. I was kind of excited about this library and would have wished it to be more of an every day workhorse than yet another artistic Spitfire library.
-Hannes
Not all demos from Spitfire are alike. The ones done by Andy Blaney should be more up your alley, they are definitely up mine. He is also the one, who laid the foundation for the newer perfomance legato, which combines runs, legato and portamento into one patch focusing on playability, which intended for musical lines.
The market and most people around here are quite saturated with good string libs. So, when a new one is presented, it must bring something new to the table, innovating or game-changing are common phrases that come to mind. It is not enough anymore to be "just another really good one". This does not make this product worse than Spitfire's other praised string libraries. The selling point of this lib is the SF typical vast collection of gorgeous sounding sustain types recorded in a new venue offering a different (not really dry but compact) sound compared to what Spitfire is commonly known for.
The market and most people around here are quite saturated with good string libs. So, when a new one is presented, it must bring something new to the table, innovating or game-changing are common phrases that come to mind. It is not enough anymore to be "just another really good one". This does not make this product worse than Spitfire's other praised string libraries. The selling point of this lib is the SF typical vast collection of gorgeous sounding sustain types recorded in a new venue offering a different (not really dry but compact) sound compared to what Spitfire is commonly known for.
SimonCharlesHanna
Senior Member
That's exactly why I didn't buy their new Solo Strings - what is the point of a solo instrument playing longs with no ability to connect notes?
Brian Nowak
Active Member
@Hanu_H my sentiments exactly. I remain hopeful that they will release a demonstration of these used musically.
@camelot But that's the exact thing. From what we've heard these "gorgeous" sustain types are seemingly hit or miss, either down to programming or some of the articulations are just kind of flops.
And yeah yeah yeah, we've heard the "oh that's not what these are aimed at" blither blather. The fact is there is absolutely no good reason to NOT develop the ability to make libraries that sound good and also have good phrasing capability. That excuse is, frankly, just mentally lazy.
@camelot But that's the exact thing. From what we've heard these "gorgeous" sustain types are seemingly hit or miss, either down to programming or some of the articulations are just kind of flops.
And yeah yeah yeah, we've heard the "oh that's not what these are aimed at" blither blather. The fact is there is absolutely no good reason to NOT develop the ability to make libraries that sound good and also have good phrasing capability. That excuse is, frankly, just mentally lazy.
Vik
Vi-k
Something new - or do what it does very good. There are so many libraries out there already, and CSS and LASS and Berlin Strings and SCS are all good at doing what they do. I guess that SF Studio Strings is an attractive product for people who already have started too invest in the Spitfire workflow - but also for others of course, if it's true that "it will work on anything from passionate period dramas to modern Scandi noir. It’s a fit for quirky indie and crisp pop, but can also tackle epic film and game scores." They just need to demonstrate more of that.
kimarnesen
Senior Member
This sounds excellent, expect the very strange solo passage in Paul Thompson's demo, which doesn't sound like a string instrument at all. Wonder what it is... And no staccato is a shame but absolutely considering this.
sostenuto
AKA _ doubtingtom37
I am now joining those advocating additional Mic and slight price rise for Core SStS.
Really not too late for SF to do this and could change early purchases notably ….. imho
Otherwise, it seems many Core buyers are committing to Professional in less than two weeks … or not ?
Really not too late for SF to do this and could change early purchases notably ….. imho
Otherwise, it seems many Core buyers are committing to Professional in less than two weeks … or not ?
sostenuto
AKA _ doubtingtom37
No disagreement here …… but hoping that very mixed early reactions can cause some review and very simple addition for a few xtra bitcoins. Early buyers could simply add, and New purchasers go either way. Easy-peasy.
I quite like this phrase. And I think it captures the sense of the "artistic" palette that the recent explosion of orchestral colours suddenly makes possible - and I can't tell you how much I don't miss the days of trying to compose exclusively with a single "workhorse" library (which was VSL SE for me, not that is isn't a quality workhorse, just that I wanted to write in other colours the simply weren't available at the time).
The irony is that I bought SStS as a kind of workhorse - to fill in a few gaps, and ocassionally add a slightly more conventional foundation to the more "artistic" libraries - Tundra, the Olafur evos, LCO and so forth. And yet playing with all the extensive articulations, it really does have wonderful "artisanic" qualities also (not least, those flautandos are amazing, and when combine the with solo string flautandos ... artisantic heaven).
So three cheers for the artisanic. (And another two and a half for the trusty workhorses of the sample library world).
nas
Senior Member
When SF first released this, my heart kind of sank and I thought “do we reaaallly need another string library?” Where’s that damn Choir library!” But upon reflection, I actually think that this is going to be a very useful and versatile library. I have quite a few of the symphonic series libraries and love the sound of Air Studios, but at times I find myself looking for a smaller tighter sound for certain arrangements - and dropping the tree and ambient mics while raising the close mics just doesn’t cut it.
Reverb (whether baked in from the hall or artificially mixed in) has a wonderful ability to hide a multitude of sins, but if you’re looking for a drier and more exposed sound, then the trade off is that you have to do double duty with the phrasing performances and the CC editing… and that takes time. Not only getting to know the quirks and strengths of a library over a period of time, but moreover that labor intensive process of coaxing the best performances out of the library.
I have every confidence that this library will deliver the goods, from what I’ve heard so far the samples sound excellent. The real question for me is a more practical consideration…. under the very real circumstances of having to deliver under a tight deadline… how much time can I really afford to spend massaging the MIDI performances and CC data? and how much time will be required with this library in particular ? (I find for example that both the Virharmonic strings and the JB violin are very playable and sound great out of the box with not quite as much editing required afterwards).
I guess we’ll only really know once we are “in the field” and getting our hands dirty.
Not sure if I really need another string library just yet, but I may just pull the trigger on this one as it does address some of my previous yearnings for a particular sound… and what’s more, I think this would be a great partner to the LCO library which I love.
Reverb (whether baked in from the hall or artificially mixed in) has a wonderful ability to hide a multitude of sins, but if you’re looking for a drier and more exposed sound, then the trade off is that you have to do double duty with the phrasing performances and the CC editing… and that takes time. Not only getting to know the quirks and strengths of a library over a period of time, but moreover that labor intensive process of coaxing the best performances out of the library.
I have every confidence that this library will deliver the goods, from what I’ve heard so far the samples sound excellent. The real question for me is a more practical consideration…. under the very real circumstances of having to deliver under a tight deadline… how much time can I really afford to spend massaging the MIDI performances and CC data? and how much time will be required with this library in particular ? (I find for example that both the Virharmonic strings and the JB violin are very playable and sound great out of the box with not quite as much editing required afterwards).
I guess we’ll only really know once we are “in the field” and getting our hands dirty.
Not sure if I really need another string library just yet, but I may just pull the trigger on this one as it does address some of my previous yearnings for a particular sound… and what’s more, I think this would be a great partner to the LCO library which I love.
I'm guessing it's the alternative to SSyS and SSoS.
procreative
Senior Member
I was told by support that if you buy the Core at £159 now and decide to "crossgrade" after the intro ends, they will calculate the difference based on the price of Core at the point you do so.
So if the price after intro is £449 then deducting £199 (Core full price) would leave £250 to pay.
So it would cost you £409 vs paying £349 during intro to get to the same place.
Its still £60 more, but surely not enough to make a panic decision?
I went back through BHT, it has exactly the same Mic setup as the Pro version including the Leader Mic. In fact I wonder if its taken from the same sessions as its the same Mix Engineer, Same Studio, Same Mic Options.
I think if the Core used a Mix Mic instead the choice would be a lot easier. As it is you are buying a library with quite a lot of early reflection ambience unless you get the Pro version.
However the Pro version would have made much more sense if the Legato was on a par with SCS (Fingered, Bowed, Fast).
And if the Vibrato is the same as BHT, then from what I can tell its NV, VB, MV with no real xfade, more an abrupt change so not really suited to mimicking progressive vibrato.
Still a very good value package, but I think less of the more esoteric articulations at the expense of the basics being bang on would have made more choice.
So if the price after intro is £449 then deducting £199 (Core full price) would leave £250 to pay.
So it would cost you £409 vs paying £349 during intro to get to the same place.
Its still £60 more, but surely not enough to make a panic decision?
I went back through BHT, it has exactly the same Mic setup as the Pro version including the Leader Mic. In fact I wonder if its taken from the same sessions as its the same Mix Engineer, Same Studio, Same Mic Options.
I think if the Core used a Mix Mic instead the choice would be a lot easier. As it is you are buying a library with quite a lot of early reflection ambience unless you get the Pro version.
However the Pro version would have made much more sense if the Legato was on a par with SCS (Fingered, Bowed, Fast).
And if the Vibrato is the same as BHT, then from what I can tell its NV, VB, MV with no real xfade, more an abrupt change so not really suited to mimicking progressive vibrato.
Still a very good value package, but I think less of the more esoteric articulations at the expense of the basics being bang on would have made more choice.
