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Ark 2 - extreme noise

mikefox789 said:
I don't own Ark 2, so I may not be at liberty to chime in, but I will say this...

I can't stand any kind of hiss or extra noise in samples. I find it incredibly distracting. I understand how minor imperfections can bring about "character", and "realism", but honestly, that should be achieved through the sample quality itself, and player performance, not by hiss, random room noise or odd imperfections. Obviously, some people love that stuff. At the end of the day I don't want a "live" sound. I want a clean, and polished studio sound, and I don't think that's too much to ask for when I'm paying top dollar. Some libraries are meant to sound live, and I get that, but they're not for me...most of the time.
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This is exactly why I am disappointed. I did not know that Ark 2 has this raw and kind of "live" sound (that a lot of people here seem to love though). I like if one can hear that it is still played by humans, and if there are some rr that are a bit more noisy or different okay. But not a noisy reverb tail on every patch or these strange crackles or noises from the recording space in the samples itself. Of course one can say, that nobody can hear the noise later if you layer different instruments. But the problem is, I can`t control the noise. I just have to hope it works and this is what bothers me.
 
samy said:
This is exactly why I am disappointed. I did not know that Ark 2 has this raw and kind of "live" sound (that a lot of people here seem to love though). I like if one can hear that it is still played by humans, and if there are some rr that are a bit more noisy or different okay. But not a noisy reverb tail on every patch or these strange crackles or noises from the recording space in the samples itself. Of course one can say, that nobody can hear the noise later if you layer different instruments. But the problem is, I can`t control the noise. I just have to hope it works and this is what bothers me.
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Wrote a long complaint then decided it's not going to be productive.. long story short: imho it's not about the noise, it's about quality control! Imagine this kind of active discussion in any mission critical industry.. words like lawyers and court would start showing up;) I'm glad we're not in one.. although many people pay really dearly for these libraries.
 
Vastman said:
"Sounds like a recording with a really cheap mic"
That statement is ridiculous... And wrong... You're ranting. I use and love my eqitek e100s mic which has the lowest noise floor in its class... It picks up lots of sounds... It is very good.

"bad processing "? Maybe limited... But not bad... The sound of this library is stunning. This is a judgements call... To leave room sounds in to an amount you don't agrees with... At least I'll assume this is the case until we hear from OT. I could just as easily surmise that they left the library more "raw" to capture the sense of the underworld... BRAVO!

Stuff the ranting, raise the issues that concern you and see what OT says... You're entitled to ur opinion of the level of room sounds but it's important to decern intent rather than blather about cheap mics and sloppy processing...I have no PROBLEM with room noise as I poetically stated earlier. Maybe they made this library for me not you!

Anything viewed under a microscope that is different than you'd like stands out. There are flaws and there are judgements calls... Especially in a library this huge.
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Can't read page 2-3 atm.. but wanted to add that MA1 had some similar issues and it's infuriating but... never really that big a deal. Guitar patches (I didn't like their tone in the first place) are the most easy to recognize, weird noises on certain keys that totally ruin anything you tried to make. I'm away from the pic, but there is one bad key in particular in MA1 that was just garbage, can't remember the patch or the key but I could find it if I had to... don't have to, and won't.

My post is about this: did OT ever update MA1? I'm pretty sure we're all stuck with MA2 as it is now, how many companies actually continually update these products beyond the projectsams out there who are selling 6 year old samples like symphonia 1 as 2016 editions? Does spitfire even heed big reports and release updates? I've seriously never seen it. And through what mechanism do they deliver the updates? You get an email saying "new update" download this patch? I have about 2000$ in spitfire and 1000$ in OT and have never received such an email.

Anyway it's great to point out these problems, but step two is figuring out how to work around them or embrace them, because I doubt we'll see any updates for things unless they're flat out broken.
 
Strezov said:
Hey guys,

I decided to chime into the discussion to let you know how I feel about this sample library. I have to point out in advance that I was one of the demo writers for Ark 2 and made this demo -

I will start a bit in advance - a couple years ago when I, still student, saved every penny I had and bought everything there was at that time of East West. Hollywood strings, brass, percussion - I had it all! However there was something bothering me during the entire period of me using those instruments (and that was not PLAY!). The first library outside of East West I got was ERA by Tari. Then I understood that it is the tiny imperfections that make a library great - not the tons of processing afterwards. We are all musicians and partially mixing/mastering engineers - when you're working on a master (or even mix with a limiter at the master channel) and you have a crushing limiter on top do your ears get tired more quickly? At least mine do. So imagine what compression, de-noising, tuning, EQ-ing do to your creative process. Just my humble opinion.

Anyway, when I worked at the demo I never for once stopped to think about the noises and noise build-up. I even put some UAD Manley massive passive high frequencies on the strings to get more definition in the 'staccato' passage. You also have an option in the engine to decrease the release tails if you want to.
The most important thing for me is that the actual content of the library just makes you fly. My personal opinion is that this is far superior than Metropolis Ark 1. Here's why I think this - nowadays basically everyone goes for loud and epic (yes, yes, guilty as charged!). But crushing and distorting sounds and reversing them is much easier than doing something soft and gentle. Ark 1 has fabulous sounds (I personally adore the Cimbassi) but they are in my humble opinion part of a sonic trend that has grown very commercial the past 10 or so years. Yet Ark 2 offers something fresh and unique, something that actually inspires you to write music! My main job is writing music for a living and I can't stress enough how painful it is to be in a dark hole, depressed, with countless deadlines ticking over your neck and NOT being able to do anything apart from staring at the blank Cubase window.

I have to hand it out to Hendrik and his team that they managed to just capture that - liveliness and inspiration within the samples themselves. The combinations are unheard of (OK, apart from strings - we don't have contrabass violins :)) and would provide a fresh look on your personal sound.

And with Capsule you have tons of possibilities in front of you to edit and tweak the samples themselves. Not to mention that you have quite a lot of microphone positions as well!

This post became a bit bigger than I first anticipated it to be so excuse me for that. I wish you festive and happy holidays - and may all of you surprise yourselves with the music you'll write!

-George
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WoW! Stunning, amazing, and really wonderful, George....
But all that noise really bummed me out! :rofl:

In my ancient life I've come to accept that we all come from different places... Those upset should stop pre-buying till their expectations are confirmed... in this case, it would have cost you another 50e to be cautious... although you would have saved MORE if you'd learned these choices were made and didn't buy in. OR you would have taken the opportunity to weigh the value of this creation and whether you can work around the things you don't like...

We have yet to hear from OT on this... I'm quite sure they are reading every word...I'm equally certain they chose to let it all hang out in this library... whether there was a lapse in QA IDK... Whether they RX the noise/humans (easy these days with izotope's tools) on the samples where this may have gone overboard or not will likely change how some of you preorder. I'm very curious how they respond...

I just keep thinking about every Ark 2 composition I've heard... and keep feeling the need to say, "WoW!"

good night... I apologize for making light of something that REALLY matters to some of you... maybe many of you! But after listening to the Strez... I couldn't resist. And there's no right or wrong here... there's just different strokes for different folks!
 
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Kota said:
Why would they use the noisy samples in their marketing campaign?
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So, you think there's some kind of conspiracy here?? What about the 5 different composers that made demos? Did they have strict orders to not use certain patches???
 
Kota said:
Yeah I can kind of hear it, but it wasn't enough to notice the first time I went through. D3 has a loud "psh" right at the beginning. Do the Mid Strings dynamics seem normal to you?
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Which articulation you are talking about ?
Don't know what you're talking about guys.. :)
 
Would love to hear anybody record a pianissimo library with 10+ bodies in the room and NOT get little noises like that. People have to breathe and playing instruments requires motion which means stage noises are a reality. Unless you're going to clamp everybody in place and surgically pipe air into their lungs via tube silently...c'mon. It's like the people complaining about pedal noise/bumps on very close mic'd piano....
 
rottoy said:
Do you have an example of a "clean polished studio sound" library to clarify your point?
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CSS.

This is me trying to make the library as noisy as possible: short articulations with lots of space, lowest velocities but amped up to hit the limiter, spot mics only, multiple overdubs... talk about "designed to fail"!



And with all that, it's still pretty damn pristine. Roll off some highs and you're good to go.
 
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benmrx said:
So, you think there's some kind of conspiracy here?? What about the 5 different composers that made demos? Did they have strict orders to not use certain patches???
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I can guarantee that at least I had no such orders. I received a version of the library, opened it up, drank my 6th cup of coffee and began writing...

Anyway, thanks for the kind words guys - you're waaay too kind. Merry Christmas, I'll probably turn off all my devices for the weekend. (I don't promise though).
 
Strezov said:
Hey guys,


I will start a bit in advance - a couple years ago when I, still student, saved every penny I had and bought everything there was at that time of East West. Hollywood strings, brass, percussion - I had it all! However there was something bothering me during the entire period of me using those instruments (and that was not PLAY!). The first library outside of East West I got was ERA by Tari. Then I understood that it is the tiny imperfections that make a library great - not the tons of processing afterwards.

-George
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I agree with your whole dissertation, George. This one point in particular. I have deleted almost all of my EastWest libs because I found them not too fun to play. Actually more work than fun. Tari's lbs are totally fun, although maybe not perfect in the naysayers eyes. I find Ark 2 to be very inspiring. I looked at the samples being complained about here and I can hear it, but so what is what so. Music is about fun, not perfection. Ark 2 is pure fun, as is your new library, Arva. Nice post. I had to chime in too to agree with you.

"Never surrender your hopes and dreams to the fateful limitations others have placed on their own lives. The vision of your true destiny does not reside within the blinkered outlook of the naysayers and the doom prophets. Judge not by their words, but accept advice based on the evidence of actual results. Do not be surprised should you find a complete absence of anything mystical or miraculous in the manifested reality of those who are so eager to advise you. Friends and family who suffer the lack of abundance, joy, love, fulfillment and prosperity in their own lives really have no business imposing their self-limiting beliefs on your reality experience' Anthon St. Maarten
 
Nils Neumann said:
Just finished downloading Ark 2, and right now I'm extremely disappointed.
Many patches have a huge noise build in, you can hear the players moving and so on. Here is a quick example with the high strings.



This is not playable out of the box. Is this a installing problem? Or did I get a wrong version for download? Anyone experienced something smilliar?
Many thanks in advance for your help!:)
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For comparison's sake, Cinematic Strings 2, Drums of the Deep or Albion II Loegria have more noise in their samples than what can be heared in your Ark 2 example.
 
"Never surrender your hopes and dreams to the fateful limitations others have placed on their own lives. The vision of your true destiny does not reside within the blinkered outlook of the naysayers and the doom prophets. Judge not by their words, but accept advice based on the evidence of actual results. Do not be surprised should you find a complete absence of anything mystical or miraculous in the manifested reality of those who are so eager to advise you. Friends and family who suffer the lack of abundance, joy, love, fulfillment and prosperity in their own lives really have no business imposing their self-limiting beliefs on your reality experience' Anthon St. Maarten

My life long journey... It has been challenging, at times but I've mostly been able to look myself in the mirror by living the above mantra...I think this is the most significant statement that has been made in this entire post... I love it. I carry it within my genes and now it'll be an Evernote!

Thank you Speaker...
 
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NoamL said:
CSS.

This is me trying to make the library as noisy as possible: short articulations with lots of space, lowest velocities but amped up to hit the limiter, spot mics only, multiple overdubs... talk about "designed to fail"!



And with all that, it's still pretty damn pristine. Roll off some highs and you're good to go.
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:cautious:
Not to be harsh, but...I don't think this is a comparable test at all... it is full of sound, no space between the next hit, no empty "space" to discern artifacts or humans doing what humans do. The FLAWS being touted are single notes, held, in isolation and thus we can jack up the gain enough to pick out the room noise... NOTHING ELSE...:shocked: To be comparable, you'd have to pick thru the library, looking for them, and use single hits, sustained to show the entire tail (not shorts) with the level of THAT SINGLE NOTE jacked up to normal full orchestra playing level...and held for the entire tail...with NO OTHER competing sounds...

Regardless, either you're bothered by the room noise or you are not (or not enough to find it unacceptable, in the grander scheme of what OT is offering here:2thumbs:)...if it REEEEEEAAALY bugs you, don't buy the library and/or avoid presales in the future if you did buy it...and do better homework first. If it bugs you a bit but you still find enough to wet your pants, I'm quite sure it will become a totally irrelevant aspect of anything you create with this magical library...

Personally, I would not want the "cleaners" :)rofl:) to run OT's show... Technically flawed bits should be addressed but the concept... the overall choices... and what can be created with MA2 is fantastic and I defer to the wisdom of those exploring new territories.

Note... I do apologize for "wet your pants" which some might consider off topic but it's something I nearly did the first time I heard Sascha's composition...
 
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I sent in a track some time ago and it was rejected instantly because of noise. Not sure the noise on this library is that critical because don't have it. But you will soon find out if you're sending in tracks.
Music editors generally don't like extraneous noise, but again, would need to hear some examples where it sounds really obvious.
 
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