"Superhero Movies have 'Blighted Culture'"
- Thread starter JohnG
- Start date
Mark Kouznetsov
ᴍʀ. ꜱᴋɪʙɪᴅɪ ʙᴏᴘ ʙᴏᴘ
Some say superheroes are new westerns. But I'd much rather watch westerns. It's impossible to get excited about any of these superhero -themed things nowadays (imho). I can't even watch a trailer in a cinema without rolling my eyes and whispering: "are you kidding me. what? again?" seeing the same plot over and over and over when we could have had an actually great big budget film in its place, but because it's much riskier to invest into other films (including the disappearing mid-range), all we get is avengers spin-off number 25. (looks like 25 might be an actual number at this point).
Out of all of those, I'm not ashamed to admit that I DO enjoyed The Dark Knight trilogy (mostly because of it being Chris Nolan's vision and a great cast, including Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine), and some others like Joker and V For Vendetta, but all of those are more "grounded" with little to no actual superhero stuff (which I don't care about).
Can't remember the last Marvel film I watched. Guardians of the Galaxy might be it, which was fun, btw. I have no memories of anything in that universe other than Guardians (again, director + cast won me over) and some action scenes from one of the Captain Americas.
Sometimes I feel like an idiot when I see a trailer to yet another superhero film and hear people talking around like "Woooooow!! It's a freaking Iron MAN, DUDE!!" and those are some grown ass dudes. Weird, because I don't get it. I mean, haven't you seen it/had enough already? It's like a fast-food factory but with movies. The same goes for star wars (I DO enjoy the very first two films, but again - CAST). Or any of those young adult films like Hunger games or maze runners. I just don't get it at all. I tried watching hunger games but the acting and the plot with dialogues was so atrocious I couldn't make it past the first 35minutes. Transformers, too.
Out of all of those, I'm not ashamed to admit that I DO enjoyed The Dark Knight trilogy (mostly because of it being Chris Nolan's vision and a great cast, including Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine), and some others like Joker and V For Vendetta, but all of those are more "grounded" with little to no actual superhero stuff (which I don't care about).
Can't remember the last Marvel film I watched. Guardians of the Galaxy might be it, which was fun, btw. I have no memories of anything in that universe other than Guardians (again, director + cast won me over) and some action scenes from one of the Captain Americas.
Sometimes I feel like an idiot when I see a trailer to yet another superhero film and hear people talking around like "Woooooow!! It's a freaking Iron MAN, DUDE!!" and those are some grown ass dudes. Weird, because I don't get it. I mean, haven't you seen it/had enough already? It's like a fast-food factory but with movies. The same goes for star wars (I DO enjoy the very first two films, but again - CAST). Or any of those young adult films like Hunger games or maze runners. I just don't get it at all. I tried watching hunger games but the acting and the plot with dialogues was so atrocious I couldn't make it past the first 35minutes. Transformers, too.
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dcoscina
Senior Member
Very underrated. No music score either which is interesting. Probably because of the found footage style it was made in.
Michael Antrum
Only the good die young....
JonS
Senior Member
I am completely bored by everything and anything superhero. The Boys is boring. All these big tentpole franchises are the same and just boring. I have no interest in superhero anything. I don't see this trend changing either, sadly. Studios think superheroes are easy cash and don't realize there are more creative ways to make big money.
jononotbono
Luke Johnson
That’s the entire reason why The Boys is so great! If this was made before all the Marvel films etc then I’m not sure how the public would have perceived it! Let’s face it, it’s not a gentle and peaceful watch is it! “Grim” is a word I’d use. all these people with super abilities and actually not having to answer for their actions. Finally not all being these goodie too shoe doo-gooder type characters?! It’s great timing.
I’m so glad it’s been made and it’s so detailed as well. They’ve created a universe in the world of everybody being saturated, even take the piss on how many movies they make (and even show them making a super hero movie). I’m so happy it’s been made. It’s really well written and there are so many jokes being made about the whole genre.
Where the Super Hero genre goes after this is beyond me but like I said previously, if you are feeling jaded and you used to like Super Hero films, then you should dip your toes back in and watch it because at the very least, it will remind you why you loved that stuff in the first place or remind you why you hated it and end up laughing more than you (at this point) will ever imagine.
As for reading the comics instead of watching it... why? That’s like saying you should read Lord of the Rings instead of watching Peter Jackson’s trilogy. They are both separate mediums. One shouldn’t need to read anything to watch a film or a TV show. I guess I should only read Ernest Cline’s book Ready Player One instead of watching the film, forget that failure of a movie Jurassic Park, read Crichton’s book instead, and then there’s that shit show called The Walking Dead. Stick to the Graphic Novels instead. It’s ok to enjoy either. Or none.
Whatever.
I actually thought you were being serious for 2 seconds. Then I thought...nah.
I agree with you - mostly. --- I can't comment about anything I haven't watched though.
I often go to the cinemas, but have walked out on multiple occasions. My "rule" applies to all genres. If a movie can't lure me in within a few minutes, I get up and go spend my free time elsewhere. But I digress.
I have watched great super hero movies - just not anything recently. I loved 1989's Batman, 2008's Batman - Dark Knight, and Despicable Me (Hey! It's a "superhero" movie too
).
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givemenoughrope
Senior Member
They haven't helped!
Easy Pickens
Member
I see them as modern greek myths. Once upon a time whether you had a full classical education or not, you could reference Theseus or Sisyphus and it was shorthand for an entire situation and one specific archetype's response to it. Nowadays there's Batman or Spiderman (or Iron Man, or Yoda for that matter). Whether you care anything about them, almost everybody knows the gist, relatives killed, a vow to fight crime, superpowers or a fancy car.
I think there's something about a shared mythology that's vital to communication, and it's not just the decline of interest in Greco-Roman mythology that's left a void. Increasingly multicultural societies don't even have sacred stories in common. I only have the vaguest notion of who Vishnu or Kali is, but my Indian neighbor speaks fluent Star Wars, so abstracts can be translated through that medium.
As far as the movies themselves, they're hit or miss. Many seem to have a contempt for the audience, at least to me. Others I find highly enjoyable. The new golden age of comic book movies came around the time I was very recently separated and couldn't watch sad movies, happy movies, etc. etc. so my sympathetic view may include gratitude for the hours my brain was shut off.
I thought that last Thor movie had some really sharp subtext to it, so maybe it comes down to the filmmakers, and whether they can tell a story in any genre.
I think there's something about a shared mythology that's vital to communication, and it's not just the decline of interest in Greco-Roman mythology that's left a void. Increasingly multicultural societies don't even have sacred stories in common. I only have the vaguest notion of who Vishnu or Kali is, but my Indian neighbor speaks fluent Star Wars, so abstracts can be translated through that medium.
As far as the movies themselves, they're hit or miss. Many seem to have a contempt for the audience, at least to me. Others I find highly enjoyable. The new golden age of comic book movies came around the time I was very recently separated and couldn't watch sad movies, happy movies, etc. etc. so my sympathetic view may include gratitude for the hours my brain was shut off.
I thought that last Thor movie had some really sharp subtext to it, so maybe it comes down to the filmmakers, and whether they can tell a story in any genre.
vitocorleone123
Senior Member
Superhero films, like all fiction, can be a great escape. They're fun, and many are genuinely enjoyable, if not necessarily memorable, and few overall are genuinely meaningful. A good story is a good story. Science fiction, done well, is both escapism AND explores one or more issues in a different light, outside the bounds of our current reality.
The extreme popularity and the impact on the film industry in general are, however, problematic. However, it's a fad that will eventually subside, even if it lingers for another decade.
If Victorian period pieces became overwhelmingly popular, people would complain about that, too. Or any form of art that shines bright and has a side effect of dimming others.
The extreme popularity and the impact on the film industry in general are, however, problematic. However, it's a fad that will eventually subside, even if it lingers for another decade.
If Victorian period pieces became overwhelmingly popular, people would complain about that, too. Or any form of art that shines bright and has a side effect of dimming others.
Exactly....a lot of the counter-reaction to comic book movies I think is that since the advent of tech that can make the stories and character's abilities etc look so real, and the stories and characters are if nothing else so colorful, they quickly became insanely popular, and the movie industry isn't stupid, they're going to ride that gravy train all they can. But as a result people (finally) got sick of them. Good. There were some fun ones, but I've long been sick of them too, though mostly for diff reasons.
Personally, I grew up reading comics as a kid and three things annoyed the hell out of me and quickly turned me off to them:
- First they became less and less faithful to the source material, often to the point of nausea. I could give countless examples large and small but anyone who knows the stuff knows what I mean.
- Second, with Marvel at least, they were far too snarky and/or "jokey," also often to the point of nausea. EVERYONE is a comedian and it's one long string of one-liners and verbal jabs after another (even to people on the same team) and the whole movie is like one big wink-wink joke. I'm all for SOME humor but most of the actual characters in the books weren't that jokey...in fact some weren't jokey at all...and there was a balance there. It gave it all much more of a credible, believable feel (despite the super power premise). But the movies made it clear they don't care about that at all
- Finally, this insistence on making characters and things increasingly "dark." Yeah like that hasn't been beat to death.
The animated DC and Marvel series were both far, FAR better at doing it right. I guess with real actors and directors, all the egos get in the way.
But basically I hope they slow down the making of them; maybe if they start doing bad enough that it slows down. I wouldn't mind the occasional flick...IF it was done right.
Personally, I grew up reading comics as a kid and three things annoyed the hell out of me and quickly turned me off to them:
- First they became less and less faithful to the source material, often to the point of nausea. I could give countless examples large and small but anyone who knows the stuff knows what I mean.
- Second, with Marvel at least, they were far too snarky and/or "jokey," also often to the point of nausea. EVERYONE is a comedian and it's one long string of one-liners and verbal jabs after another (even to people on the same team) and the whole movie is like one big wink-wink joke. I'm all for SOME humor but most of the actual characters in the books weren't that jokey...in fact some weren't jokey at all...and there was a balance there. It gave it all much more of a credible, believable feel (despite the super power premise). But the movies made it clear they don't care about that at all
- Finally, this insistence on making characters and things increasingly "dark." Yeah like that hasn't been beat to death.
The animated DC and Marvel series were both far, FAR better at doing it right. I guess with real actors and directors, all the egos get in the way.
But basically I hope they slow down the making of them; maybe if they start doing bad enough that it slows down. I wouldn't mind the occasional flick...IF it was done right.
KerrySmith
Active Member
Basically new cowboys movies aka new swashbuckler epics, etc etc It’s just a format to deliver whatever stories and messages are culturally fashionable at the time.
Matt Damon
Member
I don't really see the point in taking issue with this unless you're a soyboy tbh fam
This is a strawman because that's not what he's saying. It doesn't make a difference whether the movies are good or bad.
What he is saying is that it is a symptom of the infantalization of modern man. It is a big issue.
Adults should not really be spending time and money on escapism like this and before anyone says "yeah but the world sucks though and I just need a break from real life". Real life isn't actually supposed to be terrible. What adults are supposed to be doing is building up the environment around us and cultivating it in a way that makes it not just better for us, but for future generations.
Instead, that's not happening now. Instead, adults are remaining childless, void of any creative hobbies (just consume consume consume). Watching superhero films about characters that were designed to entertain 12 year olds or serve as blatant propaganda pieces, collecting plastic figurines, binging netflix, watching sportsball, living in the fantasy world of video games and otherwise just consuming product.
It's like yeah, real life and you're 9 to 5 suck! Newsflash: It's not going to get anything but more depressing and shitty if you just keep running away from it all the time. We have to actually face and deal with these problems if we want life to be better.
And you might say, "Oh well it's not hurting anything" as if a neglect of reality is anything but harmful. The big problem with all this stuff, especially video games, is that the kinds of people who in the 17th century would have built castles, created beautiful renaissance paintings, made incredible scientific discoveries, sailed oceans, had large families, translating books of ancient wisdom, grew enough food and raised animals to support their own families, etc. instead wind up making 34-part YouTube series on how to get all the rings in Sonic The Hedgehog or explaining to you the complete history of Westeros or some other world that doesn't even exist during all hours when they're not just driving pizza or some other meaningless job they hate with all their soul.
Lastly, the interests of the public being age-appropriate is the strongest indicator of whether your civilization is productive or consumptive outside of just looking at your daily surroundings. All consumptive civs (like Rome) wound up collapsing and we're heading for that.
There is a reason that Paw Patrol appeals to 5 year olds, but not 10s. And why like...punk music appeals to 16s but not 10s.
It used to be that punk music, much like skateboarding, comics, DnD, etc. didn't appeal to 25 year olds any longer. Now, they're all into it. To use skateboarding for example, when it first came about in the 70s or so, it was immediately something that appealed to the youth. It didn't appeal to people really in their 20s and certainly not older.
So that's why most functional people cringe when they see a 30+ year old guy ripping around on a board. It's like, technically speaking it's not actually hurting anything and it's certainly better to be outside doing something physical...but on the other hand, it (much like video games, nerd stuff, comic books, Mahvel films, and so on) 9/10 times it's a sure sign that this guy is a piece of shit manchild permanently stuck in his teen years who contributes basically nothing to society and probably still has the political opinions of a punk-rocking 15-year-old to boot.
The negative reaction people have toward this type of thing is primal and frankly, if you're not feeling it yourself (at least a little) is a sign of demoralization yourself tbh.
I used to be like that in my early 20s when the SNES was hot. I was really into gaming, still watching animated series, and stuff and then saw my handsome visage staring back in me the blackness of the screen when it was loading and thinking "Is this really what a man my age should be spending his time on? Should I really be taking this as seriously and be as invested in it as I am?"
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Jimmy Hellfire
Senior Member
I'm sure, however, that you can actually play a video game or watch a trash movie here and there without being a piece of shit that doesn't contribute anything to society.
I mean, there's still plenty of time left to go and conceive some children (frankly the only "contribution" to this society most people ever make) afterwards, right?
I mean, there's still plenty of time left to go and conceive some children (frankly the only "contribution" to this society most people ever make) afterwards, right?
Henu
Dismember
Hey, I eat soy every now and then and love video games. :( And boy, does this all really tickle me from a wrong place.
That being said, @Matt Damon- while some of your points do have some legitimity IMO, most of them fall into category of "bah, youth of today, old man yells at cloud". You seem to draw a very strict line on what is acceptable at certain age while setting the boundaries yourself based on some imaginary ideals of the "past", whatever that is. In all your high expectations it seems that you've lost a good chunk of what is actually worth living, and by the gods I sincerely hope that all my own elitism doesn't do the same slowly for me the older I become.
I'm turning 42 next week. I've been into metal music since my pre-teens and I am still looking like a metalhead, although my clothes are now cleaner and less worn-looking they used to be 20 years ago. And I wash my long hair more often, or what's left of it nowadays. So, I look like a man-child to you. Dat cringe!
I've also always been also into video games, and in fact have been working in the games industry as a composer for the last sixteen years. I'm extremely enthusiastic about things, have a huge (on the verge of autism) passion on music and especially game music and study it on daily basis in order to do my job even better. My video game and music passion defines my whole life, and I have never lost my almost child-like enthusiasm on both and I never will as long as I live if it's up to me. Losing that passion would mean death.
So, on your category, I'm probably the worst dude ever. I look like a fat metalhead, I work on games, I'm a fucking RPG nerd and on top of that I eat that goddamn soy instead of that manly beef. And the worst, I make illegitimate assumptions on people's lives in the internet!
However, that doesn't yet stop me for contributing to society, delighting people around the world with my music, raising my children to be as educated as possible and paying those goddamn taxes without having ever been living on welfare. To educate myself, to study as much as I can and to generally rise above myself in both spiritual and physical senses, although the latter one is still horribly work in progress.
And if I had time do videos for Youtube on how to get the secret rings on Sonic, I'd probably do it because IT IS FUN. While all play and no work makes Henu a very dull boy, all work and no play makes me just fucking lose it. Trust me, I know how to burn yourself out really bad.
Oh, and if you honestly brag about not liking punk anymore after reaching a certain age, that's just really fucking sad.
That being said, @Matt Damon- while some of your points do have some legitimity IMO, most of them fall into category of "bah, youth of today, old man yells at cloud". You seem to draw a very strict line on what is acceptable at certain age while setting the boundaries yourself based on some imaginary ideals of the "past", whatever that is. In all your high expectations it seems that you've lost a good chunk of what is actually worth living, and by the gods I sincerely hope that all my own elitism doesn't do the same slowly for me the older I become.
I'm turning 42 next week. I've been into metal music since my pre-teens and I am still looking like a metalhead, although my clothes are now cleaner and less worn-looking they used to be 20 years ago. And I wash my long hair more often, or what's left of it nowadays. So, I look like a man-child to you. Dat cringe!
I've also always been also into video games, and in fact have been working in the games industry as a composer for the last sixteen years. I'm extremely enthusiastic about things, have a huge (on the verge of autism) passion on music and especially game music and study it on daily basis in order to do my job even better. My video game and music passion defines my whole life, and I have never lost my almost child-like enthusiasm on both and I never will as long as I live if it's up to me. Losing that passion would mean death.
So, on your category, I'm probably the worst dude ever. I look like a fat metalhead, I work on games, I'm a fucking RPG nerd and on top of that I eat that goddamn soy instead of that manly beef. And the worst, I make illegitimate assumptions on people's lives in the internet!
However, that doesn't yet stop me for contributing to society, delighting people around the world with my music, raising my children to be as educated as possible and paying those goddamn taxes without having ever been living on welfare. To educate myself, to study as much as I can and to generally rise above myself in both spiritual and physical senses, although the latter one is still horribly work in progress.
And if I had time do videos for Youtube on how to get the secret rings on Sonic, I'd probably do it because IT IS FUN. While all play and no work makes Henu a very dull boy, all work and no play makes me just fucking lose it. Trust me, I know how to burn yourself out really bad.
Oh, and if you honestly brag about not liking punk anymore after reaching a certain age, that's just really fucking sad.
Matt Damon
Member
Yeah it's not like I'm saying you should just flat out never do this or else you need to rope
but that doesn't change the fact that it's not good, and most people today's entire identities are formed around it.
Michael Antrum
Only the good die young....
What the world really needs is more unboxing videos.....
Matt Damon
Member
Eating a lot of junk food, drinking lots of booze, snorting coke with Charlie Sheen, tons of no-strings-attached sex are all loads of fun too.
And yet they come with a price down the road...
To be honest bro, I never liked punk to start with. Punk is awful.
Henu
Dismember
Do strap-ons during sex count as "strings-attached"? Asking for a friend.
That being said, instead of dropping names of random drug addicts I've partied with, I'm just going to continue working on the woodwinds arrangement for this game music piece I'm working on. Because while I find arguing with random nobodies in the internet as fun as a barrel of monkeys, I still have responsibilities and that dreaded passion to do music instead, you know, brah.
That being said, instead of dropping names of random drug addicts I've partied with, I'm just going to continue working on the woodwinds arrangement for this game music piece I'm working on. Because while I find arguing with random nobodies in the internet as fun as a barrel of monkeys, I still have responsibilities and that dreaded passion to do music instead, you know, brah.
Jimmy Hellfire
Senior Member
Well it goes back to the old Horkheimer-Adorno thing, doesn't it, the critique on the culture industry. Entertainment, consumerism and mass media are there to sedate people and create false needs, dreams and cravings in order to make them tame and deflect from their real cultural, economic and societal needs and issues. I think there's definitely a lot of truth in that and we might be seeing the peak of that in today's society.
Obviously it's completely lost on the average Joe out there, but still, a composed, observant and responsible mind should be able to make conscious decisions instead of just being programmed, and should be able to take all things in adequate moderation. There's nothing inherently bad about entertainment, as long as one uses it for the one thing it's good for, and doesn't neglect anything else in favor of it.
