If we had spent the hours & focus we use on VI-libraries, Macs/PCs, updates, bugs etc on...

[Vik]

If one completes only 10 seconds of music/day, that's one hour of music/year. I wonder what would have happened if we had spent all the time & focus we use on VI-libraries, Macs/PCs, DAW troubleshooting, updates, sorting out bugs etc on actually making music.

I have two friends who have spent a lot of time learning Logic but at some point instead records their ideas andcompositions to an iPhone (with or without using the camera). One of them also use traditional notation. Both are very happy with that decision. What do you think?

Click to read more...

 

[NekujaK]

Just because a DAW can host virtual instruments, doesn't necessarily mean it's the ideal place to create and develop musical ideas. Sometimes the best way to create is away from the computer. Some folks use notation, voice memos, or sit with an instrument like a piano or guitar. Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference and workflow style.

DAWs are really good for arranging and recording. So eventually, if the end goal is to create a fully realized recording of a composition, it'll most likely end up in a DAW.

Also, if you're having to spend so much time on "DAW troubleshooting, updates, sorting out bugs" that you can only make 10 seconds of music a day, then perhaps there are bigger problems that need to be sorted out first. I consistently work in my DAW anywhere from 2-6 hours a day without ever having to deal with any of that. Your computer setup shouldn't be inhibiting your productivity.

 

[NYC Composer]

I stayed on Cubase 6 on a cheese grater Mac Pro from 2008-2019. During that time I averaged writing 2-3 minutes of library music a day along with a number of personal projects.

In 2019 I bought an i9 iMac running Mojave and upgraded to Cubase 10. I’m still on 10.5. A few weeks ago I upgraded to Monterey. I use VEP as a local server to cut down on Cubase save times.

All in all, I’d like to spend as little time as possible troubleshooting, updating etc and maximum time making music. I prefer a stable system to a whizbang latest/greatest problem child.

Additionally, Ive gotten less and less interested in buying, downloading, auhorizing and integrating new libraries into a template, all of which take a great deal of time and usually some frustration.

 

[tc9000]

You guys are writing music?

JKJKJ

You do make a good point tho. We can 100% know that Rachmaninoff spent exactly zero time d*cking about updating Logic and browsing VI sales

 

[jbuhler]

Since upgrading to my Mac Studio in January I’ve written essentially no music in the DAW as sorting out a bunch of issues has taken all the time. On the other hand I picked up Dorico and quickly wrote a string quartet movement. So maybe working in notation again is going to be the thing that gets the composing going.

Mostly I say just go with what’s working and don’t think too much about it until the font dries up.

 

[greggybud]

Both are very happy with that decision. What do you think?

Inspiration can come from anywhere.

I use a DAW. I also use just a grand piano. In the late 90s I used Reaktor to add spice, and I'm not doing EDM.

There are some who just adore the tools. PC, Mac, DAW developers and all the 3rd parties. They just love testing and buying every new VST even though these days it's often a re-hash of software 20 years ago. And now AI.

You have to be self-disciplined about your priorities.

Personally, I don't think you can write lots of good songs in a year. Maybe 5 but only if you work every day. Benny Andersson said that, and I think it's true. Quality...not quantity.

 

[I like music]

If one completes only 10 seconds of music/day, that's one hour of music/year. I wonder what would have happened if we had spent all the time & focus we use on VI-libraries, Macs/PCs, DAW troubleshooting, updates, sorting out bugs etc on actually making music.

I have two friends who have spent a lot of time learning Logic but at some point instead records their ideas andcompositions to an iPhone (with or without using the camera). One of them also use traditional notation. Both are very happy with that decision. What do you think?

I tell this story too many times, but I know the answer.

A childhood friend of mine basically spends 12 hours a day writing music (he stopped visiting this forum many many years ago because he said it was distracting him). Only uses the Hollywood Brass/Strings and some old VSL woods. He knows them so well that he can draw stuff in with his eyes closed.

Has scored multiple triple-A games, and won extremely prestigious awards. Hell, I know that his demos for some sample library developers have probably caused many of us to spend money with those developers.

Apart from being incredibly talented he is just purely dedicated to writing. I literally have hours of music that he's written, and you can hear how he's got better and better and better year after year.

 

[JohnG]

It's a balance. It's nifty to be the World's Best Composer but if all you have to communicate with is a stack of manuscript paper with notes on it -- good luck. Even the top gatekeepers in the various strands of music -- concert music, media, games -- respond a lot differently to a nice recording than some hideous midi jangle or, alas, notation.

Of course cluttering up your work stream all the time with the newest libraries will clog the pipes, but I still wouldn't trade what I have today for what I had 10 years ago.

We're (mostly) grownups. It's up to us to strike a balance. However, it's good to:

1. become at least halfway professionally competent at playing an instrument;

2. be able to read / write notation if you hope to communicate with a conductor / orchestra some day;

3. study a score from someone you admire so you can incorporate specific elements you like into your work;

4. perform once in a while if you can. It is never bad to be reminded what makes people want to get up and dance, or be moved emotionally, or simply intrigued. Performing generates a palpable feedback loop that I personally find beneficial.

 

[J-M]

Wouldn't that be something. I've managed to my have my setup in a somewhat reliable state for a while now and I rarely need to troubleshoot. However, the daily time I have dedicated for music is divided between 1) Actually writing music 2) Studying it 3) Mix or mockup practice 4) Practicing my instruments. I might be a better composer if all or most of that time would be spent on just writing and studying music, but I'm in no rush really...

 

[jbuhler]

Personally, I don't think you can write lots of good songs in a year. Maybe 5 but only if you work every day. Benny Andersson said that, and I think it's true. Quality...not quantity.

I don’t know. There are two ways (at least) to get to this: work every day, and write many, many songs of which 5 will be good. Quantity yields quality. Or: write every day but throw out, abandon all but the best. Five good songs. It appears that this leaves only quality but the quality is again the product of quantity, working every day, at least in part.

Working every day you will produce quantity. Some of the work will inevitably be better. One hopes that both the baseline quality rises over time and that the best continue to get better.

It’s a question I suppose whether quality requires quantity, that is, working every day, at least once the basic craft of one’s style has been achieved. Some seem to be able to work in concentrated spurts. Their five songs may indeed not require working every day. They may be working every day doing something else.

 

[Niah2]

One of the things I think I spend a lot time is midi editing. I always improvise and play my own parts. The result is that there will be some great parts and others not so much and then I spend a gazillion hours improving the overall performance.

When I have the chance to work with live musicians remotely, I send the parts and the midi mockup is not even that great and the first take they do is already amazing and I am like...damn !

Amazing.

 

[PancakesBear]

Well I joined in Jan 19th 2024. Until then I didn't pay much attention to VI libraries except for that 4-5 companies that I'd already bought from (OrangeTree Samples, Accoustic Samples, 8Dio, Spitfire, Sample Modeling). So the result of that was that I'd never listened to a Heavocity library or an Orchestral Tools library, or a Wrongtools library, or a Grumpy Monkey plugin, or Baby Audio - or Inlet Audio or all these other companies that are probably lesser known in general. And I have to say it's been very important for me to see what else is out there. And being on the forum has saved me a ton of money for if I'd tried to buy a bunch of libraries without knowing when the ones I was going to love were going to be on sale. (Looking at you Equinox)

So honestly submerging myself into the deep pool of sound libraries was for me an important experience. At the same time, I'm noticing that the parade of new plugins never ends. The parade of new deals never stops. I can't literally buy them all. And I definitely can't install them all on my laptop's 4TB storage capacity. And the fact of the matter is that I don't want to use them all because I've already found libraries that I love and I want to become intimately familiar with THOSE rather than EVERYTHING in general. That's my plan. Honestly once I get VWinds... I'm gonna shut it down probably until at least Black Friday rolls around again. At which point I'll probably buy some more libraries from the companies I trust such as Orchestral Tools and Heavyocity.

 

[Vik]

Sometimes the best way to create is away from the computer. Some folks use notation, voice memos, or sit with an instrument like a piano or guitar. Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference and workflow style.

Well, that's what I mean: I feel that maybe being away from the computer when the main compositional decisions are made is a good idea. Thos could change if Logic could be more 'piano like'.

And of course – when that's done, DAWs can be a very useful and necessary tool.

Also, if you're having to spend so much time on "DAW troubleshooting, updates, sorting out bugs" that you can only make 10 seconds of music a day

I didn't write that. I wasn't talking about me and I can make a lot more than 10 seconds of music a day.

I consistently work in my DAW anywhere from 2-6 hours a day without ever having to deal with any of that.

I guess that's true for most composers. Still, and relevant to this forum, all the time we spend on the 'extras' (checking out and discussing new libraries, sorting out how X works after having updated Y to Z etc) certainly can be distracting.

I have often found myself going back to checking out ideas with a simple piano sound in order to move on. Once I start dealing with articulations, vibrato automation or CCs the right brain half takes a brake and the left brain half wakes up.

My attempts with new tools (especially Cubase and Dorico) represented a lot of wasted time too, and it's also obvious to me that my visions for how Logic could develop vs. Apple's plans are really different from each other. I was saying, in another century, that I never was going to buy a computer for music/compositions and in hindsight (a few decades later), I think today that this would have been a great choice. Of course it's important today to deliver good mockups, but somehow I guess I need to separate the compositions process and the VI process.

On another note, if libraries like CSS, the best Performance Samples libraries or Spitfire's new cello and 1st violins (Abbey Road) would have been around when I registered here 10 years ago, I would have saved A LOT of time/money.

 

[KerrySmith]

If you love computers and tech, and digging into the nitty gritty, then it’s not time wasted. If you don’t want to spend your time on that, learn to be a really good composer and hire an assistant to run and maintain your rig.

 

[NekujaK]

I didn't write that. I wasn't talking about me and I can make a lot more than 10 seconds of music a day.

Ah got it... thank you for the clarification.

My attempts with new tools (especially Cubase and Dorico) represented a lot of wasted time too, and it's also obvious to me that my visions for how Logic could develop vs. Apple's plans are really different from each other. I was saying, in another century, that I never was going to buy a computer for music/compositions and in hindsight (a few decades later), I think today that this would have been a great choice. Of course it's important today to deliver good mockups, but somehow I guess I need to separate the compositions process and the VI process.

There is a lot of pressure and temptation, especially if you follow these forums closely, to keep seeking new tools and "better" ways of doing things. But it all just gets in the way of the actual craft of producing new music.

It's very rare that a new VI, or even a DAW, is so revolutionary and innovative that it has a significant impact on our creative process. Existing tools and well established sounds are just as capable as most of the new stuff out there.

If we learn to embrace the tools we have and maintain our focus on music creation, we can be immensely productive. I compose in Reason (not even the latest version), which has the least sophisticated sequencer and editing tools of any DAW, and yet, I've scored films, have hundreds of sync placements, and recorded and mixed commercial projects for other artists... all with Reason.

Sure, Cubase and Logic are considerably more capable, but I'm able to work incredibly fast in Reason and it's rock solid. Also, my templates are filled with libraries that are at least 2 years old, but I know them really well and know what to expect from them.

The trick is to simply settle on some tools and VIs you like, learn to work with and around their limitations, and move forward and crank out music. The perfect DAW and perfect VIs don't exist, and probably never will, so it's really counter productive to keep chasing that Holy Grail.

Also, as many on this forum will tell you, there's nothing as effective as an external deadline or commitment to get us laser-focused on composing! If you're making music for your own personal pleasure, then it becomes very easy to get distracted researching new plugins, cruising forums, and tinkering with your VIs. A deadline will squash that behavior instantly Except of course, when you do it to procrastinate and avoid working, which also happens

As music creators, we're lucky to be alive in such an amazing time. The tools available to us are beyond what anyone could have conceived of 40-50 years ago. If we can't make music with the tools we have right now, at this very moment, then we are truly wasting this unprecedented opportunity.

 

[dcoscina]

I’ve been way more productive since I moved to composing in notation apps like Dorico and MuseScore. I can’t really write developed pieces in DAWs. I came up in the late 80s studying so it kind of makes sense. I’m old and old school.

I will add that I see some people on here posting so much I wonder when they have time to write music. Not a dig per se, just an observation.

 

[Vik]

I will add that I see some people on here posting so much I wonder when they have time to write music.

That could have been a good way to close a thread like this, but if someone is a freelance musician, and spend eg. 4 hours aday (average) on music, there's still a lot of hours left for foruming. I just checked, and found that I have written circa 1 post a day since here (average), which I feel OK about.

Regarding the 10 seconds of completed music a day average I mentioned (I was thinking of orchestral music), that was meant (and feels like) an 'inspirational fact': even if I'd go back to pencil and paper for the – what shall I call it.... 'core composing, one could end up being more efficient than doing everything in the DAW. AFAIK most DAWs are way slower than simply playing an instrument (a piano in my case) in terms of trying out variations of a melody/harmonic changes.

 

[gamma-ut]

AFAIK most DAWs are way slower than simply playing an instrument (a piano in my case) in terms of trying out variations of a melody/harmonic changes.

Where are the goalposts now? I thought the issue was farting around with the DAW doing admin (for whatever reason) not using the DAW.

I've heard tell, though I can't confirm it's true because it's so outlandish, but some people play stuff and actually record it in a DAW. And then play it again differently, and record that too. And then make some choices. Or maybe use something like the transformers in Logic or the Cubase logical editor to do retrograde, stretch, transpose etc.

Bizarre, I know. I didn't believe it when I heard it.

 

[newbreednet]

Quantity yields quality.

I believe it was Bob Dylan who said, "write ten songs a day, and throw away nine."

I also don't believe in writer's block: I certainly have times when I write crap, but I do tend to think that writing crap is far better than writing nothing. I can grab a guitar and hit a "D" chord and sing "I'm writing such crap songs tooooo....." (change to "E" chord) "...dayyyyyyy".....

and in that little simple harmonic moment, I feel a new sense of inspiration, and then, encouraged by my ability to create *something*, I'll go on to write something a bit deeper and more interesting.

Writing becomes a habit.

 

[Vik]

Where are the goalposts now? I thought the issue was farting around with the DAW doing admin (for whatever reason) not using the DAW.

I'm just discussing what the most efficient way to compose is. Of course one may do what one did 30 years ago, and record a new take until it gets right, or use eg. Transform for certain edits. But both these methods are quite primitive compared with other possible solutions (implemented in some DAWs/score apps).

Many prefer using step time over real time recording (at least for certain stuff), and there are many ways which could have simplified the composing process. The main two alternatives I mentioned in my first post was to use pencil and paper instead, or to just record ideas (as audio or video), but getting lost in troubleshooting, compatibility issues etc are also relevant to that topic.

If one wants so write a four voice vocal arrangement, or a five voice string composition, recording + rerecordings very often wouldn't be the best solution. The same goes for writing something for eg. piano or strings that's more complicated for the composer than what they are capable of getting right using the record button.