Hip Hop sample libraries?

[LearningToCompose:)]

Let me just end my side of the argument with this: Kanye has been sued countless times for not properly clearing samples, but he’s never once been sued for a one shot drum sound, take that as you will…

That doesn't make it moral

@erica-grace don’t spend money on hip hop drums, they’re all free on Reddit and you’ll be getting the exact same drums that all the big hip hop producers actually use. This is the one instance where I feel very strongly that buying sample libraries is absolutely not the way to go at all

Allright I went back and read the first page.
Here's my problem.
Why actively discourage people from purchasing stuff that someone make a living from selling?
Your own perspective aside. Why not just keep it to yourself?
Also, is it just hip hop drums one shots that are fair game?
How about sample libraries with 1 shots?
If not, why not?

 

[mscp]

Nobody has ever been sued for a one shot so…

Let me just end my side of the argument with this: Kanye has been sued countless times for not properly clearing samples, but he’s never once been sued for a one shot drum sound, take that as you will…

You are right. One-shot samples (kicks, snares, a flute note, ...) in a music context is not infringement. Patterns, melodies, and styles are, depending on the situation. But whatever, hire an entertainment lawyer right?

Kanye is not a 'good reference' for anything actually, but I won't go there. And morality, in this day and age in the entertainment industry? hahaha. I'd love to see the moral police being courageous enough to tell their favourite artists (or employers) and go: "people, seriously? are you going to do it like that? that's not cool!".

P.S.: Suing is a rich man's sport. Like Golf.

 

[KEM]

Allright I went back and read the first page.
Here's my problem.
Why actively discourage people from purchasing stuff that someone make a living from selling?
Your own perspective aside. Why not just keep it to yourself?
Also, is it just hip hop drums one shots that are fair game?
How about sample libraries with 1 shots?
If not, why not?

If people want to buy hip hop drums then they can, I’ve bought plenty of hip hop drums myself, but Reddit is THE place to go for hip hop drums, so of course I’m going to point someone to that first if they’re asking about where to get good hip hop drums. Whether one decides to download them from Reddit or buy them directly from a company is one’s own choice to make and if they’re happy with what they end up with then great

 

[erica-grace]

because recordings have specific footprints (mixing style, gear used, ...). What happens if in court, you demonstrate that you have used the exact same methods? Plaintiff loses.

HUH???

 

[method1]

Plenty of artists get sued for uncleared samples, I’m well aware of that, but unlicensed or torrented software? Never heard of someone being sued for that. How would you even know if someone’s used unlicensed or torrented software? That doesn’t make any sense at all

deadmau5 Calls Out Kanye West for Software Piracy

After Kanye West posted a screenshot to show fans what he was listening to on YouTube, outspoken electronic artist Joel Zimmerman (a.k.a. deadmau5) was quick to call him out on pirating software.

www.billboard.com

Steve Aoki Caught Using Pirated Software | Your EDM

Never try to sneak anything past Reddit, even if you don't think you have anything to hide. Steve Aoki may be feeling the pain here very shortly, as

www.youredm.com

Label Apologizes For All The Cracked Software Visible in Rapper's YouTube Video * TorrentFreak

Music production software is both notoriously expensive and heavily pirated, quite often by those just getting into the game. However, if you're an already famous performer and screenshots of your desktop appear on the Internet, removing evidence of cracked apps is probably a good move.

torrentfreak.com

Because genyeezus.

 

[KEM]

deadmau5 Calls Out Kanye West for Software Piracy

After Kanye West posted a screenshot to show fans what he was listening to on YouTube, outspoken electronic artist Joel Zimmerman (a.k.a. deadmau5) was quick to call him out on pirating software.

www.billboard.com

Steve Aoki Caught Using Pirated Software | Your EDM

Never try to sneak anything past Reddit, even if you don't think you have anything to hide. Steve Aoki may be feeling the pain here very shortly, as

www.youredm.com

Label Apologizes For All The Cracked Software Visible in Rapper's YouTube Video * TorrentFreak

Music production software is both notoriously expensive and heavily pirated, quite often by those just getting into the game. However, if you're an already famous performer and screenshots of your desktop appear on the Internet, removing evidence of cracked apps is probably a good move.

torrentfreak.com

Because genyeezus.

Posting a picture with clearly visible torrented software is dumb, no argument there

 

[mscp]

deadmau5 Calls Out Kanye West for Software Piracy

After Kanye West posted a screenshot to show fans what he was listening to on YouTube, outspoken electronic artist Joel Zimmerman (a.k.a. deadmau5) was quick to call him out on pirating software.

www.billboard.com

Steve Aoki Caught Using Pirated Software | Your EDM

Never try to sneak anything past Reddit, even if you don't think you have anything to hide. Steve Aoki may be feeling the pain here very shortly, as

www.youredm.com

Label Apologizes For All The Cracked Software Visible in Rapper's YouTube Video * TorrentFreak

Music production software is both notoriously expensive and heavily pirated, quite often by those just getting into the game. However, if you're an already famous performer and screenshots of your desktop appear on the Internet, removing evidence of cracked apps is probably a good move.

torrentfreak.com

Because genyeezus.

Wait, are you guys talking about pirated software or one shot samples? I'm confused.

Software piracy IS illegal...no matter how one tries to spin it.

 

[KEM]

Wait, are you guys talking about pirated software or one shot samples? I'm confused.

Software piracy IS illegal...no matter how one tries to spin it.

Yes it is, and I’m not trying to argue that at all, my argument was about using one shots

 

[mscp]

HUH???

copyright.gov or talk to an entertainment lawyer who specializes in copyrighted recordings. he'll explain it in depth.

 

[DSmolken]

How is trying to avoid stealing from other creative artists virtue signalling?

Well... old-school hip-hop had a whole lot of stealing from other creative artists and not paying them. "It's not smart or correct, but it's one of the things that makes us who we are" to quote Red Green. Funny how getting that sound these days without actually stealing things, or paying out the nose for sample clearance, is a challenge.

 

[method1]

Wait, are you guys talking about pirated software or one shot samples? I'm confused.

Software piracy IS illegal...no matter how one tries to spin it.

 

[method1]

Things I learned from this thread.

1. If you can clone a recording setup perfectly, you can get away with unlicensed samples that were recorded using that same setup, which begs the question, why steal the sample if you have the exact same setup? Probably because we don't have the technology to clone the musicians & recording engineers involved... yet!

2. The "reddit sound" is apparently a booming hiphop sub-genre.

3. Most of us have ADHD

4. The OP probably still doesn't have samples.

 

[el-bo]

deadmau5 Calls Out Kanye West for Software Piracy

After Kanye West posted a screenshot to show fans what he was listening to on YouTube, outspoken electronic artist Joel Zimmerman (a.k.a. deadmau5) was quick to call him out on pirating software.

www.billboard.com

This story actually prompted the development of the free synth 'Vital'. Its developer wanted to put quality Serum-like instruments into the hands of impoverished artists, such as Kanye.

True story!

 

[method1]

This story actually prompted the development of the free synth 'Vital'. Its developer wanted to put quality Serum-like instruments into the hands of impoverished artists, such as Kanye.

True story!

Very cool! Didn't know that.

 

[erica-grace]

copyright.gov or talk to an entertainment lawyer who specializes in copyrighted recordings. he'll explain it in depth.

So that means you don't know what you said either, huh?

 

[erica-grace]

The OP probably still doesn't have samples.

Actually, I do now!

 

[mscp]

1. If you can clone a recording setup perfectly, you can get away with unlicensed samples that were recorded using that same setup, which begs the question, why steal the sample if you have the exact same setup? Probably because we don't have the technology to clone the musicians & recording engineers involved... yet!

Or better yet..become a decent audio engineer, to get as incontestably similar to the original material as possible (enough to fool). Mainstream practice. Check your favourite artists.

So that means you don't know what you said either, huh?

I have lawyers who deal with clearance, and other matters. What I meant was, the simple info I told you is correct. If you doubt it, please go check the site or consult a lawyer. I tried.

 

[davidanthony]

Nobody has ever been sued for a one shot so…

This is actually untrue. In one of the more recent high profile examples, Madonna et. al were sued in 2016 for using .23 second long horn stab.

In this copyright infringement action, Plaintiff VMG Salsoul, LLC, alleges that the producer of Vogue, Shep Pettibone, copied a 0.23-second segment of horns from an earlier song, known as Love Break, and used a modified version of that snippet when recording Vogue.

She won, on appeal, but the whole thing probably cost upwards of mid-six-figures to defend. Not trivial.

That said, as a practical matter, it's unlikely that anyone will get sued for using a copyrighted one-shot if their infringing work never makes it past Soundcloud (and especially now, after this case -- previous cases found for the plaintiffs.)

 

[jbuhler]

Samples must be cleared if it contains specific melodic content done in a very particular way. If they're just a bunch of chord progressions, they don't need clearance either...because chord progressions cannot be copyrighted either.

You can't really count on these old conventions standing up in court any longer (or, what amounts almost to the same thing, preventing a lawsuit from being brought against you based on these old conventions), and with the Content ID algorithm misrecognizing things as often as it does, you can't even count on audio that is unquestionably legal being problem free in terms of distribution. I'm told that in some domains of the entertainment world there are increasingly stringent rules against using samples. I learned this in talking casually with a television music editor. Wish I could remember the details better or had better evidence than hearsay on this.

 

[mscp]

This is actually untrue. In one of the more recent high profile examples, Madonna et. al were sued in 2016 for using .23 second long horn stab.


She won, on appeal, but the whole thing probably cost upwards of mid-six-figures to defend. Not trivial.

That said, as a practical matter, it's unlikely that anyone will get sued for using a copyrighted one-shot if their infringing work never makes it past Soundcloud (and especially now, after this case -- previous cases found for the plaintiffs.)

Madonna Wins; ‘Vogue’ Sample Was Perfectly Legal | Law & Crime

Thursday, the Ninth Circuit sided with Madonna and dismissed a four-year old copyright lawsuit against the star. The plaintiff, VMG Salsoul LLC, (“VMG”) alleged that Madonna’s hit “Vogue” illegally copied a .23 second clip of horn music from the earlier song “Love Break.” Madonna and her former...

lawandcrime.com