Pro's would really appreciate your feedback

[dannymc]

hi guys here is my latest composition. still a newbie, 6months at it now but think i've improved alot in no small part thanks to the great tips available on this fourm.

would really appreciate it if i could get some good constructive feedback on the piece particularly around the technical stuff and arrangement which i feel i'm very weak. also i'm not as happy with the horn sample as i would like, any tips on how to make brass sound warmer and bigger?

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[mwarsell]

No comments?

Everything sounds so warm and full! Nicely done! Feel like listening to it again immediately. But perhaps the arrangement might need something...hmm...not sure how to help you out...

Well what comes to mind is that the piano playing at the beginning would benefit for being more delicate and a touch more reverb on it.

Probably bring something more epic in at 2:14?

I liked the string staccatos in the middle. And that you bring in the same perc rhythm in the end.

 

[Lawson.]

Not bad at all! I think the brass sounds pretty good, actually, and the percussion is groovy. Here are a few comments I have (but know that it is all just my opinion):

The string sustains seem to lag behind the beat a bit and have kind of mushy attacks.

A lot of the piece feels very empty like it's missing things, but maybe you wanted it to be like that. I don't think you used any woodwinds; they're great at filling in the holes.

At 1:44 the strings don't seem to resolve the leading tone which feels odd but maybe that was intentional. The staccatos seem to come out of nowhere, and don't seem to match the rest of the piece until 2:10 when the high strings come in.

The sound effect at 2:40 was a little odd but I can see how it fits the title as it's a wooshy kind of thing.

When the melody comes in at 1:20 the strings sound super empty. Perhaps a viola counter-line would help. Basic SATB voice leading applies to strings very nicely.

I hope I didn't come off too harsh; I'm just trying to give useful feedback (but keep in mind it's all just my opinion).

 

[dannymc]

No comments?

Everything sounds so warm and full! Nicely done! Feel like listening to it again immediately. But perhaps the arrangement might need something...hmm...not sure how to help you out...

Well what comes to mind is that the piano playing at the beginning would benefit for being more delicate and a touch more reverb on it.

Probably bring something more epic in at 2:14?

I liked the string staccatos in the middle. And that you bring in the same perc rhythm in the end.

hey miika, thanks for finding my track. i actually posted this about a month ago so i've moved on since. i always think its a good sign that one is improving if you go back and listen to a previous track and think god that doesnt sound great at all

yes arrangement is my biggest issue at the moment, i'll continue to work on that.

Not bad at all! I think the brass sounds pretty good, actually, and the percussion is groovy. Here are a few comments I have (but know that it is all just my opinion):

The string sustains seem to lag behind the beat a bit and have kind of mushy attacks.

A lot of the piece feels very empty like it's missing things, but maybe you wanted it to be like that. I don't think you used any woodwinds; they're great at filling in the holes.

At 1:44 the strings don't seem to resolve the leading tone which feels odd but maybe that was intentional. The staccatos seem to come out of nowhere, and don't seem to match the rest of the piece until 2:10 when the high strings come in.

The sound effect at 2:40 was a little odd but I can see how it fits the title as it's a wooshy kind of thing.

When the melody comes in at 1:20 the strings sound super empty. Perhaps a viola counter-line would help. Basic SATB voice leading applies to strings very nicely.

I hope I didn't come off too harsh; I'm just trying to give useful feedback (but keep in mind it's all just my opinion).

no problem at all lawson, you're not being hard at all. i'm usually my own worst critic anyways. i'm not sure why i did'nt think the brass sounded too good, i think maybe i just dont really like the brass section of the orchestra if i'm honest.

i did'nt think the staccatos came out of nowhere thou, maybe its just my style. i'll take on board you're other feedback. for now i'm more concerned with trying to get my productions as pro sounding as possible, the rest will hopefully come with experience.

 

[SymphonicSamples]

Hey Danny , I really enjoyed the opening measures . Lawson has some good points such as the strings sitting behind the beat at times . With the initial entrance of the strings , a slower crecsendo would be lovely . As far as the stac passages ,if you had a crescendo of some sort be it a cymbal role for example , it would make the transition smoother and connected . The percussion could maybe serve the piece better if it entered at lower dynamics so you have some room to build . It's all person touches , but just some thoughts

 

[rayinstirling]

Thinking about the best way to explain my opinion, I came up with this:
It sounds like the percussionist's arms are in plaster where the only movement is at the shoulders.

I think you need to loosen up.

 

[dannymc]

hey Matt thanks for listening, really value your input as i think you're work is off the highest level and really enjoy your compositions.

Lawson has some good points such as the strings sitting behind the beat at times

Which strings are you talking about here, is it the low legato double bass lines that come in with the percussion or the melody choir style strings that start 1.15 in?

the initial entrance of the strings , a slower crecsendo would be lovely

you know what you're right there. this was down to the sample lines in the albion patch, as soon as the chords end they cut out, i still cant figure out how to make the ADSR's in kontakt work properly here. i suppose i could always use the pedal to sustain and then fade out. i'll definitely work on that for my next track.

if you had a crescendo of some sort be it a cymbal role for example , it would make the transition smoother and connected .

so you mean something like a timpani or cymbal roll a bar or two leading up to the start of the staccato lines? i actually thought the note change just before the staccato transition would be enough to announce the change in direction but i guess not.

the percussion could maybe serve the piece better if it entered at lower dynamics so you have some room to build . It's all person touches , but just some thoughts

i think this is a personal thing, i like cues with big percussion lines from the outset, a good example would be some of Ramin Djawadi's cues for game of thrones, love his epic percussion.

Thinking about the best way to explain my opinion, I came up with this:
It sounds like the percussionist's arms are in plaster where the only movement is at the shoulders.

I think you need to loosen up.

hey rayinstirling so do you mean the percussion is just all too static and i need to use lower levels and lower & more varied velocities on the percussion or do you mean something else that i'm completely missing in this wonderful world of orchestration?

 

[rayinstirling]

Danny,
It sounds forced with no flow. No natural rhythm.

 

[SymphonicSamples]

Hey Danny , I took another listen and in reference to the strings , which all libraries have issues with , is the natural attack of the bow when the section is playing , and that all so difficult to capture with samples , change of bow direction and the natural pressure a string player applies to the bow . I don't own any of the Albion series so I'm not sure what you have to work with . Ray's thoughts on the percussion would be worth looking at to give the piece a more human feel . And the transition to the stac passage , one reason I mentioned that was ..

The staccatos seem to come out of nowhere, and don't seem to match the rest of the piece until 2:10 when the high strings come in.

What I should have said was by having a cymbal roll or similar would make the transition into the stacs more a natural progression . Given your piece is entitled "Gliding" , I think you have captured the feeling

 

[dannymc]

hey Matt thanks for that. i have albion I which uses the baked in approach to their sample patches so no detailed up bow and down bow ability. i'm nearly sure i seen in a tutorial video somewhere the way to over come this attack issue is to start the midi line just before the bar/beat like maybe 1/16th, maybe that might work?

What I should have said was by having a cymbal roll or similar would make the transition into the stacs more a natural progression . Given your piece is entitled "Gliding" , I think you have captured the feeling

on taking another listen i see what you mean. i always think timpani rolls and cymbal rolls are so over used in compositions, kinda want to hear more creative transitions but i guess any type would be better than none at all.

i'll defo look into the percussion too for my next track.

 

[jacobthestupendous]

Nice work on this! I'm even more of a noob than you, but I have a few suggestions.

i always think timpani rolls and cymbal rolls are so over used in compositions

I'd suggest that they get overused because they are very effective when they are used appropriately. People don't always know when to say when, but like many things in the right context, there's nothing else like 'em. Except maybe whoosh-bangs.

start the midi line just before the bar/beat like maybe 1/16th, maybe that might work?

I can't speak to ASDR in Albion specifically, but scooting the midi note starts forward 10 or 20 milliseconds can do wonders for tightening up sound. I noticed the difference most towards the end with the perc hitting notes noticeably before the starts of the long string sustains.

i like cues with big percussion lines from the outset

I agree with the others that the percussion seems a bit inflexible. As with all dynamics, "big" is a matter of context, and if you start your piece quietly, any percussion (even somewhat quiet percussion) will sound big by comparison, while leaving the track some room to grow dynamically. It helps me to think of headroom as a finite thing and work back from the loudest I want to be.

Another option would be to grow it not in volume but in density. Add a layer or two of other big drums to the heavy impact beats only to give them extra weight. Add grace notes, little quieter drum strikes, a couple of 16ths or a few triplet 8ths ahead of the heavy impact beats. Fill out the silent beats with non-epic drums; it will add tons of texture and interest that is hard to even put your finger on. Daniel James is an expert at this.

If you don't want to do any of that, you can do like I did after about 2:30 of below, where I wrote a simple drum line, copied it, and panned one side hard left and one side hard right. Then I scooted the notes around on one side or the other just enough to add stereo depth and the illusion of bigness.

 

[dannymc]

If you don't want to do any of that, you can do like I did after about 2:30 of below, where I wrote a simple drum line, copied it, and panned one side hard left and one side hard right. Then I scooted the notes around on one side or the other just enough to add stereo depth and the illusion of bigness.

hey man thanks for the percussion tips, sounds great. what library did you use for them? if you're even more of a noob than me then i think you're doing very well, you're stuff sounds pretty advanced. really enjoyed your track.

 

[jacobthestupendous]

Thanks, man! At the end there, it's just 1st and 2nd violins, cello, and bass from Cinematic Strings 2, Giant Piano and Logic's glockenspiel, and two instances of Action Strikes on percussion in that hard left and right arrangement that I was describing. Earlier in the track there is some involvement of the free Pocket Blakus and the not free Heavyocity Gravity.