Can you move notes diatonically in the Logic score editor?

[Vik]

Could you be more specific, please? I find Dorico so annoying that I would love to find a Logic-only approach which works for a piano roll hater like me.

I have found so much user-unfriendliness in Dorico that I stopped checking it out properly, which means that a discussion about this would be better off in a dedicated thread – with more participants. I never updated to version 2 or 3, but updated to 4 and 5 – and have looked a t various walkthroughs/discussions etc about Doricos development. Regarding finding a good Logic approach, I have posted some tips about useful Logic solutions in this thread:

Sharing Logic tips and tricks

Someone suggested in another thread that it would be useful with more Logic tips and tricks, so here's a thread everyone can use to share are find tips. I'll start: If you want to replace only a part of a region in an easy way as possible, enable Content Punch. You can do this by clicking on...

vi-control.net

Here's some of what I've posted earlier about Logic vs Dorico – see below. (For some reason, some posts about Logic vs Cubase also came up in the search.) What may look like grumpy Dorico- skepticism can also be read as hints about what Logic IMO does better.
I'm glad Dorico has gotten better, btw.

Search results for query: Dorico logic

vi-control.net

Long story short, Apple doesn't seem to be interested in notation or composition/orchestral writing, and the Dorico team isn't really dedicated to make Dorico much easier to use. Plus, Dorico isn't a DAW.

 

[wing]

Long story short, Apple doesn't seem to interested in notation or composition/orchestral writing, and the Dorico team isn't really interested in making Dorico much easier to use. Plus, Dorico isn't a DAW.

It's a bit late for this, but I've always thought if Apple had ever developed their own separate notation program which was designed to also sync or integrate seamlessly with Logic – with their money, development and user-friendly UI experience, it could've been great and probably very approachable for all music backgrounds. Perhaps a Sibelius killer, at least for Mac users. However obviously Apple has shown they are less and less interested in professional-level products, especially for niche markets, than they used to be - since they have generally shifted their focus toward small devices and iOS etc. While Logic is a popular and flagship professional product, even that they don't give the development attention I think it really deserves, and it seems with recent updates their market focus is firmly on music producers / songwriters etc. So I don't think they care too much to tap into the more niche music market of composers and such.

All that said, regarding Dorico, it was initially hard for me to get into, but nowadays I find it a breeze to work in, much faster than Logic for so many things in particular the score editor. I can create and edit vertical music across multiple staves in seconds.

My impression is that Dorico has gotten easier in the past few updates. I think the development team comes off as slightly stubborn, very much stuck in an "engineer" mindset and not an everyday creative user mindset. I've seen many UI suggestions met with a "why would you want to do that?" response. And yet I have seen some of those suggestions have made it in recent updates, so perhaps enough people have complained about the same things that they finally give in haha. Either way, the UI is becoming easier and easier, so I appreciate that the team is at least very active.

 

[Berdinskikh]

...with their money, development and user-friendly UI experience...

They could easily make it Logic Remote substitute with written-via-Pencil notation recognition (neural engine to drive), proper MIDI capabilities based on the Articulation sets and so much more... And not only that, they could turn this concept into a whole Sidecar API, so that every app could use that secondary screen not as a plain macOS display, but as a canvas — for working in image processing, or a time line — as for videographers. Only such a treat in my opinion may look like a justification for existence of these platforms that far away from each other they're now.

 

[Nick Batzdorf]

if Apple had ever developed their own separate notation program

Too niche for such a large company.

 

[Vik]

Too niche for such a large company.

Maybe, but they could still improve on the score editor they have - or abandon it and create a new one. Seeing all the amazing improvements that occurred in the early days of Notator/Notator Logic/Logic when apparently only one person one person was working on it, imagine what they could have today.

 

[Nick Batzdorf]

Maybe, but they could still improve on the score editor they have - or abandon it and create a new one. Seeing all the amazing improvements that occurred in the early days of Notator/Notator Logic/Logic when apparently only one person one person was working on it, imagine what they could have today.

I'm saying they won't, for the same reason they haven't been updating the score editor in Logic.

 

[Vik]

You may be right about that, but if the reason it isn’t being developed anymore eg. is that the guy responsible for score development doesn’t work on Logic anymore, or work with Logic but on something else, they could hire some others to do it. After all, “Apple recorded 164,000 full-time employees in 2022, up from 154,000 in the previous year”. Why the obsession with not finding, say, five employees who could restart the score development?

 

[wing]

Too niche for such a large company.

As I mentioned it is too niche for them, especially now that their focus is on consumer devices. They used to develop somewhat more niche products in that direction, so I wasn't saying it could happen now in 2024, but if they ever did in the past, it could've been something which went after Sibelius. As I also mentioned their market focus with Logic (which they don't upkeep as much as I think they should) is more on producers/songwriters/pop/etc., so notation and the score editor is unlikely to get much attention.

 

[wing]

They could easily make it Logic Remote substitute with written-via-Pencil notation recognition (neural engine to drive), proper MIDI capabilities based on the Articulation sets and so much more... And not only that, they could turn this concept into a whole Sidecar API, so that every app could use that secondary screen not as a plain macOS display, but as a canvas — for working in image processing, or a time line — as for videographers. Only such a treat in my opinion may look like a justification for existence of these platforms that far away from each other they're now.

As an iPad + pencil owner (latest gen), I find the current implementation to be woefully underdeveloped and often feeling like a missed opportunity. Sure, you can annotate PDFs and draw in some apps, but a lot more could be done to build a canvas surface for tons of pro-media apps across many disciplines. I know less about this than it sounds like you do, but as an end-user I would love to see the kind of thing you describe!

 

[Vik]

They used to develop somewhat more niche products in that direction

IMO it’s a lot more reasonable to assume that they keep updating a music/notation app (including the notation functionality) – which they already have paid for the development of – than to assume that they’ll start developing a standalone, new score app.

They are interested in the education market, and in the music market. Notation is, in a way, the original alphabet of music – and is being used in marching bands, amateur choirs, piano lessons and more and lots of young people learn instruments and pop songs using notation. A score window (most of the major DAWs have one, for a reason) also has a few benefits over the piano roll.

Many were surprised the day Apple acquired Logic/Emagic, but since they did that, it would IMO be more surprising if they stopped the development of the score functionality than if they continued to update it.

 

[Nick Batzdorf]

As I mentioned it is too niche for them, especially now that their focus is on consumer devices.

And yet they've shown repeatedly that they're very serious about making Logic as good as they can.

The reason they have pro apps is that they sell Macs, but it's not like the people who work on them aren't committed to what they do with their entire working lives.

As I also mentioned their market focus with Logic (which they don't upkeep as much as I think they should) is more on producers/songwriters/pop/etc., so notation and the score editor is unlikely to get much attention.

They have a team of very impressive AF programmers working on Logic full-time.

And I don't say that lightly.

 

[wing]

IMO it’s a lot more reasonable to assume that they keep updating a music/notation app (including the notation functionality) – which they already have paid for the development of – than to assume that they’ll start developing a standalone, new score app.

Hmm maybe I wasn't clear but I was definitely not saying they there is any possibility they would develop a standalone app, especially at this point. I was just saying if that had ever done so, it could've been great, especially if it were designed to work in perfect sync with Logic. As a company there was a time when they created products for pro disciplines, but with the exception of a few like Logic and FinalCut, they've largely abandoned this in favor of consumer devices and media. I am not worried that they would phase Logic out, but I don't think it's their cash cow. I don't see any reason they would phase out the score editor entirely, I just am not holding out a lot of hope that they will ever overhaul it, since their market focus isn't as much on the world of music that even uses scores. Most previous big updates are focused more on stuff like "beat making."

 

[wing]

And yet they've shown repeatedly that they're very serious about making Logic as good as they can.




They have a team of very impressive AF programmers working on Logic full-time.

And I don't say that lightly.

It's a huge company with billions of dollars. I'm not at all suggesting they just have one guy working on it part time. Of course they have a full-time team. I just mean it's not quite their focus as, say, iPhone/iPad and Apple Music/TV is. But that's an obvious thing. I wasn't hating on Logic, I just think there are certain things that are "past their prime" and could use an update after years of "workarounds." While I wish one of these could be the score editor, I'm definitely realistic in understanding it isn't their market priority.

 

[Vik]

They have a team of very impressive AF programmers working on Logic full-time.

What is "AF"?

they've shown repeatedly that they're very serious about making Logic as good as they can.

Sure, but there's a limitation there: they make it as good as they can in many/most areas, but seem to (unless they have been working on some major changes or improvements for a long time) ignore the two areas which many of us find most important.