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Adachi: Important update, 8Dio threatens reviewers and competing devs

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Lionel Schmitt said:
Can the same be reasonable expected for demo composition though?
Not sure if you mean to say that.

I feel like there should be compensation beyond receiving the library for both.
Both is work without knowing if the library will be worthwhile as pay. Which is a bad deal in both cases.
Click to expand...
Yes, I also believe a composer should be paid for their demo tracks, especially if a developer reaches out to a specific composer to write for them.
 
I do recall since joining this great forum, a former employee/staff who worked for said company mentioned how they were mis-treated while working for them. He/She was "silenced" by fans of the products thinking it was a disgruntled individual for speaking out.

Now that more people have spoken up, it makes you wonder he/she was also "threatened or bullied" behind the scenes.

I'm glad Sarah was able to team up and work with Impact Soundworks' Tokyo Scoring Strings.
 
Threats of litigation over the smallest thing is not a good look. You come off as a coke addled megalomaniac. As my fellow American brethren like to say: "You 'bes not pull out a gun unless you're willing to use it."

So as an outsider who uses sample libraries for fun to soothe his soul I say this. You do realize you make sample libraries right? You're not making a breakthrough with nuclear fusion or feeding billions with crops. You're not Oppenheimer.

Geez Lousie ya'll is cray-cray
 
wst3 said:
FWIW I've watched a bunch of developers here implode over issues that appeared, from the outside, to be frivolous. Some were, some were not, and some remain clouded in mystery.
Click to expand...
Yes. Who doesn't remember the forum chaos over a certain member's YouTube/Twitch review of a brand name strings library? VI-Control was buzzing for quite some time.

I'm sorry to hear that anyone has been harassed in any way, but I have to base any buying decisions and recommendations on my own personal experience and on the library itself. If I were to avoid buying product from a company that did something I didn't agree with, or treated a customer in a way that the customer felt was unfair or abusive, I would probably never buy anything.

That said, I hope those who feel they have been wronged or harmed in any way will fully recover from the experience. I have been bullied to the point of massive anxiety attacks in the past, so I know how difficult such things can be.
 
It takes me anywhere from 5-10 days to produce the walkthrough videos I do. Here's a bit of what's involved:

- The first day is spent downloading the library, make Cubase tracks for every instrument's articulation, figure out the delays, and start coming up with ideas. A proper demo doesn't just use legato patches, it showcases all of the articulations unique to that library, so I need to spend time with the library and figure out what makes it special, explore the mic options, and how it works in general.
- Then I write the demo, which can take a day or several days...when you know a demo is going to be analyzed for any flaws you have to be very meticulous. On top of that, I try to make it a piece that stands alone, with a memorable melody or hook. Most of my demos make it onto an album I release later.
- I'm constantly refining the track, bouncing it and listening in my car, sending to the developer for feedback. I usually don't have much feedback from the developer anymore, which means I'm getting better I guess. Finally, after several versions and mixing, the track is ready to go.
- Then I have to start on the video portion. How do I best explain what I did and how I used the library? I write out a full script because I've tried to just riff off the top of my head and I generally don't explain things fully or I leave important parts out. This script takes several hours.
- Then I have to set up my camera and lighting gear. I'm a video producer so you'd think that makes things go faster, but it just makes me more particular about how things look. So it's 3 point lighting, a proper cinema camera with overhead boom mic, etc. Sure, I could keep this gear set up in my studio but it'd look like a mess all the time with wires running everywhere, so I break it down between shoots. I also have to set up the screen capture and make sure that's all working.
- I shoot the whole thing, which takes longer than it should because even though I'm using a teleprompter to read my script, I still fumble on words every once in a while.
- I do all the screen captures. Playing individual sections or just certain tracks. Then I screen capture the main DAW play through, in which I capture about 7-10 different views of the DAW (strings, brass, perc, all tracks, piano roll, etc) so I can edit those all together later.
- Then I ingest all the footage and edit it all together, choosing the best takes, adding in the correct screen captures, balancing all the audio levels so the voice isn't louder than the music, and vice-versa. Doing overlapped edits on stuff so there's overlap between my talking and the screencast, to keep the video flowing well and to keep it from becoming boring.
- When I have an edit that works, I send the video to the developer to make sure they're ok with everything. Then I export the final master. Then I also often create a 1 minute social media version in three formats - 16x9, 1x1, and 9x16.

So yeah, the better part of 1-2 weeks. I'm sure some folks could do it quicker, but I'd prefer to put the time into it and make something very polished that I'm proud to have my face on. That's also why I only do a couple of them a year nowadays. But, yes, I do get paid.
 
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TheWhat said:
Threats of litigation over the smallest thing is not a good look.
Click to expand...
The problem is that the mere threat of litigation is enough to silence someone. The cost to defend one's self is prohibitive, and the person making the threat knows that.

There was once a forum where various physics topics were discussed. Not rocket science, good old basic, high school level physics that has been settled for a very long time.

A member of that forum brought up an advertisement for a product that, at least on the surface, appeared to violate some laws of physics. Several folks explained how the statement in the ad was incorrect. The man behind the ad popped in and explained his theory, which was quickly refuted.

Unbeknownst to most on the forum this gentleman then threatened anyone that disagreed with him, claiming they were damaging his business. And everyone stopped posting, most of them leaving the forum for good. We later learned that the gentleman in question was very quick to threaten lawsuits.

I am not mentioning names because heaven only knows what forums he watches for mention of his name. It has even been mentioned here, and no one seemed to bother questioning him. I feel bad for folks that are taken in by him. Fortunately for them most of his products work, not for the reasons he states, but at least they are not being ripped off completely. (I can not vouch for all of them since I have no direct experience with some of them.)

Anyway, it is sad that the threat of a lawsuit can shut someone down. I have the upmost respect for anyone that stands up to a bully, but I do not think less of someone that simply walks away. This is the society in which we live.
 
David Kudell said:
It takes me anywhere from 5-10 days to produce the walkthrough videos I do. Here's a bit of what's involved:

- The first day is spent downloading the library, make Cubase tracks for every instrument's articulation, figure out the delays, and start coming up with ideas. A proper demo doesn't just use legato patches, it showcases all of the articulations unique to that library, so I need to spend time with the library and figure out what makes it special, explore the mic options, and how it works in general.
- Then I write the demo, which can take a day or several days...when you know a demo is going to be analyzed for any flaws you have to be very meticulous. On top of that, I try to make it a piece that stands alone, with a memorable melody or hook. Most of my demos make it onto an album I release later.
- I'm constantly refining the track, bouncing it and listening in my car, sending to the developer for feedback. I usually don't have much feedback from the developer anymore, which means I'm getting better I guess. Finally, after several versions and mixing, the track is ready to go.
- Then I have to start on the video portion. How do I best explain what I did and how I used the library? I write out a full script because I've tried to just riff off the top of my head and I generally don't explain things fully or I leave important parts out. This script takes several hours.
- Then I have to set up my camera and lighting gear. I'm a video producer so you'd think that makes things go faster, but it just makes me more particular about how things look. So it's 3 point lighting, a proper cinema camera with overhead boom mic, etc. Sure, I could keep this gear set up in my studio but it'd look like a mess all the time with wires running everywhere, so I break it down between shoots. I also have to set up the screen capture and make sure that's all working.
- I shoot the whole thing, which takes longer than it should because even though I'm using a teleprompter to read my script, I still fumble on words every once in a while.
- I do all the screen captures. Playing individual sections or just certain tracks. Then I screen capture the main DAW play through, in which I capture about 7-10 different views of the DAW (strings, brass, perc, all tracks, piano roll, etc) so I can edit those all together later.
- Then I ingest all the footage and edit it all together, choosing the best takes, adding in the correct screen captures, balancing all the audio levels so the voice isn't louder than the music, and vice-versa. Doing overlapped edits on stuff so there's overlap between my talking and the screencast, to keep the video flowing well and to keep it from becoming boring.
- When I have an edit that works, I send the video to the developer to make sure they're ok with everything. Then I export the final master. Then I also often create a 1 minute social media version in three formats - 16x9, 1x1, and 9x16.

So yeah, the better part of 1-2 weeks. I'm sure some folks could do it quicker, but I'd prefer to put the time into it and make something very polished that I'm proud to have my face on. That's also why I only do a couple of them a year nowadays. But, yes, I do get paid.
Click to expand...
My steps are pretty much the same!

1. Download and install
2. Procrastinate and worry that I won't do the library justice
3. Set up all the cameras, shower and shave, experience technical issues
4. Try to edit, realize I forgot all the tricks to multi-camera editing, search Google for tutorials like this:

premierepro.net

Multicam Tips & Tricks for Premiere Pro Editors - PremierePro.net

I wrote the Multicam chapter in the Best Practices and Workflow Guide for Adobe, and this post is a collection of both simple and more advanced techniques and workflows that didn’t fit in the...
premierepro.net premierepro.net

5. Deliver after being asked when I'm going to have it done a zillion times
6. Keep my day job

:rofl:
 
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Daren Audio said:
I do recall since joining this great forum, a former employee/staff who worked for said company mentioned how they were mis-treated while working for them. He/She was "silenced" by fans of the products thinking it was a disgruntled individual for speaking out.

Now that more people have spoken up, it makes you wonder he/she was also "threatened or bullied" behind the scenes.

I'm glad Sarah was able to team up and work with Impact Soundworks' Tokyo Scoring Strings.
Click to expand...
We're very very happy to be working with Sarah. Her work on TSS was just the beginning. TSSS is coming (this year, maybe next - it's already recorded) with her direct input on the legato process, plus we'll be revising the engine and improving it further (w/ TSS as well.) She was also the primary programmer on Tokyo Scoring Drum Kits. Plenty more to come beyond these libraries, and even beyond the Tokyo series.
 
Markrs said:
What surprises me when I watch his walkthrough videos he really comes across as passionate and caring in a way. It is a bit hard to describe but the videos felt unscripted and genuine even though he is marketing a product he has created. However, hearing these accounts, I feel duped and naive.
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I feel the same. He seems to be genuine and sympathetic in the videos. If the stories are true about the way they treat customers and professionals... I feel duped.

But saying no to them is easy for me. I did buy Anthology, but I can't get along with their UI very well. So with this shenanigans outed, I will definitely ignore everything coming out of 8dio.
 
robgb said:
Yes. Who doesn't remember the forum chaos over a certain member's YouTube/Twitch review of a brand name strings library? VI-Control was buzzing for quite some time.

I'm sorry to hear that anyone has been harassed in any way, but I have to base any buying decisions and recommendations on my own personal experience and on the library itself. If I were to avoid buying product from a company that did something I didn't agree with, or treated a customer in a way that the customer felt was unfair or abusive, I would probably never buy anything.

That said, I hope those who feel they have been wronged or harmed in any way will fully recover from the experience. I have been bullied to the point of massive anxiety attacks in the past, so I know how difficult such things can be.
Click to expand...
I understand what you're saying and i'm still at this point conflicted. We all most likely buy products on a day to day basis and if we knew how they were sourced and created from beginning to end and who was harmed during the process, we may end up not buying anything :). Also, i'm not usually one that likes joining a parade of pitchforks until I've seen enough evidence about what has happened.

For me, it's a personal threshold of what seems to be repeated obvious wrongdoing and a choice to spend my money elsewhere. I still plan on using the 8DIO products I have as I can't get a refund and it helps nobody at this point by sinking my entire investment to make a further statement.

But I can decide where my future money and recommendations go at least for the time being. It shouldn't be much to ask out of all the businesses that exists that sample library developers can both make great products and treat people like human beings.
 
David Kudell said:
It takes me anywhere from 5-10 days to produce the walkthrough videos I do. Here's a bit of what's involved:

- The first day is spent downloading the library, make Cubase tracks for every instrument's articulation, figure out the delays, and start coming up with ideas. A proper demo doesn't just use legato patches, it showcases all of the articulations unique to that library, so I need to spend time with the library and figure out what makes it special, explore the mic options, and how it works in general.
- Then I write the demo, which can take a day or several days...when you know a demo is going to be analyzed for any flaws you have to be very meticulous. On top of that, I try to make it a piece that stands alone, with a memorable melody or hook. Most of my demos make it onto an album I release later.
- I'm constantly refining the track, bouncing it and listening in my car, sending to the developer for feedback. I usually don't have much feedback from the developer anymore, which means I'm getting better I guess. Finally, after several versions and mixing, the track is ready to go.
- Then I have to start on the video portion. How do I best explain what I did and how I used the library? I write out a full script because I've tried to just riff off the top of my head and I generally don't explain things fully or I leave important parts out. This script takes several hours.
- Then I have to set up my camera and lighting gear. I'm a video producer so you'd think that makes things go faster, but it just makes me more particular about how things look. So it's 3 point lighting, a proper cinema camera with overhead boom mic, etc. Sure, I could keep this gear set up in my studio but it'd look like a mess all the time with wires running everywhere, so I break it down between shoots. I also have to set up the screen capture and make sure that's all working.
- I shoot the whole thing, which takes longer than it should because even though I'm using a teleprompter to read my script, I still fumble on words every once in a while.
- I do all the screen captures. Playing individual sections or just certain tracks. Then I screen capture the main DAW play through, in which I capture about 7-10 different views of the DAW (strings, brass, perc, all tracks, piano roll, etc) so I can edit those all together later.
- Then I ingest all the footage and edit it all together, choosing the best takes, adding in the correct screen captures, balancing all the audio levels so the voice isn't louder than the music, and vice-versa. Doing overlapped edits on stuff so there's overlap between my talking and the screencast, to keep the video flowing well and to keep it from becoming boring.
- When I have an edit that works, I send the video to the developer to make sure they're ok with everything. Then I export the final master. Then I also often create a 1 minute social media version in three formats - 16x9, 1x1, and 9x16.

So yeah, the better part of 1-2 weeks. I'm sure some folks could do it quicker, but I'd prefer to put the time into it and make something very polished that I'm proud to have my face on. That's also why I only do a couple of them a year nowadays. But, yes, I do get paid.
Click to expand...
Your QC is second to none. As a cameraperson and perfectionist, it’s heartening to know my slow process is equally matched to yours! I always appreciate your videos. I feel in safe hands.
 
wst3 said:
Anyway, it is sad that the threat of a lawsuit can shut someone down.
Click to expand...
FWIW, people should learn a little bit about the rights they have, and know the difference between libel, slander, defamation, etc. Not all things said against someone can be those things, and the burden of proof is on the claimant, and has a really high bar (in most cases). IANAL YMMV.

wst3 said:
upmost
Click to expand...
*utmost
 
May I ask what the process of the whole thing is like, the various attitudes and opinions make it impossible for me to see what happened in the whole thing. Can someone please briefly explain what's going on as I also own their library and would like to know more about this company？？？
 
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