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What does this really mean Apple dumping Intel

Dewdman42 said:
for better or worse
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My educated guess based on talking to a guy who knows a guy is that it'll be for better.

Remember Pro Tools TDM, when the argument for running plug-ins on dedicated Motorola DSP chips was... that they were dedicated? This is likely to be similar, only the economy of scale will come into play.

As I said, no computer company has ever come out with new models that are less powerful than the ones that preceded them.

(I know, there was a Mac Mini, etc., but you get the point.)
 
god you are so good at constantly quoting me out of context with the wrong meaning.

i was not meaning to say new macs will be worse then old ones. Duh

But the situation getting us there will not be smooth...and "for better or worse" simply means the entire big picture of everything related to using computers now, transition and future.....and I was referring specifically to Apple going to RISC while MS windows will not. For better or worse in the grand scheme of things... Let's hope they don't make them slower....hehe... but...I personally think some of the early ones might be slower...
 
Seriously, "for better or worse" doesn't mean worse and I'm not taking anything you said in *any* context - in fact I'm not really sure why your gonads are in the uproar position.

I think it'll be better, that's all. The guy who knows a guy - and he really does - said told me that these chips are going to be highly optimized. That's all.
 
Yes, quite right.

What you're missing is that I'm just kidding.

Did someone piss in your Wheaties? I truly don't give a FF about ARM chips - this is just an idle discussion and I'm not disagreeing with anything you wrote. My only point is that I think the chips are going to be an improvement. That's all.

Oy.
 
Well given this is the world I live in as a day job I at least have some insight. What Apple are doing is what they have done before as a result of been a victim of their own success.

it’s a pretty accepted thing now that windows based pcs/laptops are disposable units and most people replace/upgrade them every few years and the upgrading route is fairly straightforward .

Apple’s approach has always been the sealed unit so it’s not upgradable but is robust and does its job some 10years after it was built. Here is the crux of apple’s problem someone buys a MacBook and 10 years later it still works, in that time Apple made no more cash of the consumer. So they bring out faster newer stuff and less people buy as their existing kit is fine so prices go up etc etc

So Apple switched to Intel from the PowerPC/RISC this meant all software has to be recompiled for the new hardware, resulting in old kit becoming obsolete and forcing people to buy the new Intel based kit. Apple happy as selling lots of new hardware, job done

Now Apple find themselves in the exact same place again on the Intel platform, new machines etc that aren’t selling. So what do they do ........ switch back to RISC meaning all software has to be recompiled for it and Intel based hardware will be obsolete. So everyone goes and buys new machines, Apple happy again

This is Apple history repeating, don’t get me wrong I love Apple and Wintel but if you live in a Mac world then they have you by the balls
 
Cynicism is the laziest and smallest of attitudes. Ignorance masquerading as insight.
 
Just to clarify I am certainly not characterising people choices , making them victims, been a cynic or ignorant.

This is a simply a matter of business for Apple to generate revenue. As stated they are a victim if their own success. If their hardware wasn’t so stable/reliable/robust then people would upgrade more frequently. It’s got to the stage where they need to force a change to generate new revenue.

Microsoft and Sony have done the same with the Xbox and PSP using hardware an software. It’s all just business new version of games comes out you want but it only works on V2 consoles and you have a V1 console. You have a choice either buy a new console or forgo the new game.

Ultimately that’s a decision every Apple owner will have to make as well, if I want new version of software then upgrade hardware. The kicker is the fact that Apple also make software as well that’s used in the audio and film markets, so you can guarantee the new version will only work on the new hardware
 
Looking forward to seeing a product used to its full potential. I feel like my iMac isn't using all its abilities when I use it with Logic even less then 50% and there are warnings. My bet is that we may not see a huge leap in processor speed, but we will see a processor be able to be pushed to near max and still work and not overheat, and blow the CPU's outa the water. I am excited to see this. One of the developer videos Craig spoke that " we finally just let the guys loose" in the lab. Though I'm sure they already have a higher performance CPU then what the iPad uses.
 

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Moving over to arm is a good thing and an even better thing that apple is the one doing it first because I don't use apple. It is still largely in it's infancy but it is a more efficient architecture with lower power consumption. The growing pains come from developers needing to recompile (terminology?) their software to work with the new architecture.

The ipad chip performs as fast as some i7 chips, and thats a mobile arm chip with passive cooling. At the very least, for laptops and mobile devices the proposition is extremely exciting.
 
Interestingly is windows on arm has been around for a while now but not many manufacturers have built the hardware and sticking with Intel. The ARM architecture brings 2 major things power consumption aka battery life and connectivity. Now Microsoft announced the surface pro x which is ARM based so guessing this will compete with the MacBook. I used to have a surface laptop for work and could get around 7hrs out if it which as a software engineer which was fine for me

one question that baffles me is MacBook users have always said how great battery life was and now they want/need more. Also I know a lot of producers use MacBooks but is that solely because they can’t afford the iMac/Mac Pro. If the desktop macs were the same price as the MacBooks which would you pick, as ARM really brings nothing to the desktop world
 
thevisi0nary said:
Moving over to arm is a good thing and an even better thing that apple is the one doing it first because I don't use apple.
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Sorry but Apple is behind Microsoft on this, windows on ARM has been out for a good while now. They also announced Surface Pro X which will be ARM based, it can run native 32bit and 64bit ARM apps as well as been able to run x86 32bit apps under emulation. The big problem is it can’t run x64bit apps, so any software not available in 32bit (Cubase) will have to be recompiled.
 
Windows on arm has been around a while but what a lot of people don’t realize is that those arm windows devices can hardly run any apps, because the vast majority of windows apps are compiled only for x86. Nobody in their right mind is going to run cubase emulated.
 
Dewdman42 said:
Windows on arm has been around a while but what a lot of people don’t realize is that those arm windows devices can hardly run any apps, because the vast majority of windows apps are compiled only for x86. Nobody in their right mind is going to run cubase emulated.
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Windows arm can only run 32bit x86 apps, my point was that Microsoft already have windows arm and there has been little uptake from either hardware or software makers. So the natural conclusion if the hardware companies aren’t building machine s would be either cost is too high or there is no demand. Microsoft already had a large chunk of the core windows 10 running on arm so this wasn’t a big deal for them.

the only reason Apple can do this is because they control the software and hardware, the only people that will lose out are consumers who will be forced to upgrade. So start saving another $2500+ for your next Logic upgrade oh an you’ll get another 8hrs battery life thrown in for when you can’t be bothered to plug it into the wall

be interesting to see if the prices of intel macs fall, might become a cheap windows laptop
 
DovesGoWest said:
Just to clarify I am certainly not characterising people choices , making them victims, been a cynic or ignorant.

This is a simply a matter of business for Apple to generate revenue. As stated they are a victim if their own success. If their hardware wasn’t so stable/reliable/robust then people would upgrade more frequently. It’s got to the stage where they need to force a change to generate new revenue.

Microsoft and Sony have done the same with the Xbox and PSP using hardware an software. It’s all just business new version of games comes out you want but it only works on V2 consoles and you have a V1 console. You have a choice either buy a new console or forgo the new game.

Ultimately that’s a decision every Apple owner will have to make as well, if I want new version of software then upgrade hardware. The kicker is the fact that Apple also make software as well that’s used in the audio and film markets, so you can guarantee the new version will only work on the new hardware
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I stand by my critique. I know when someone feels like they must educate or enlighten me on the “behind the scenes” forces guiding the tools I’ve used and researched exhaustively since 1993.

I also know that when people in my life have used the rhetorical “I love X, but...” it usually means there is more agenda than actual love.

No, I do not believe you necessarily have malicious intent, even as your narrative of the ecosystem bears little or no resemblance to my experience - I’ve never felt forced to make an upgrade decision, nor have I felt grabbed by the body parts. I do think you came believing you needed to deflate something here, before it even gets underway, just as the thread title invites.
 
gpax said:
I stand by my critique. I know when someone feels like they must educate or enlighten me on the “behind the scenes” forces guiding the tools I’ve used and researched exhaustively since 1993.

I also know that when people in my life have used the rhetorical “I love X, but...” it usually means there is more agenda than actual love.

No, I do not believe you necessarily have malicious intent, even as your narrative of the ecosystem bears little or no resemblance to my experience - I’ve never felt forced to make an upgrade decision, nor have I felt grabbed by the body parts. I do think you came believing you needed to deflate something here, before it even gets underway, just as the thread title invites.
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I doff my cap to you kind sir :) I do own all the i devices and love them, I want a MacBook but can’t justify the cost as well as knowing I’m locked into what I buy, given the latest change in direction it’s put me off buying one now for a few more years
 
DovesGoWest said:
Sorry but Apple is behind Microsoft on this, windows on ARM has been out for a good while now. They also announced Surface Pro X which will be ARM based, it can run native 32bit and 64bit ARM apps as well as been able to run x86 32bit apps under emulation. The big problem is it can’t run x64bit apps, so any software not available in 32bit (Cubase) will have to be recompiled.
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This is false. As far as standard computing systems Apple already has a strong hardware and software ecosystem, Windows has nothing comparable on Arm and it's why the Surface Pro X was largely a dud. Makes no difference if they have been out longer, the practical usability is not there, and emulating on Windows arm takes a performance dive. The benefits of Arm are only there when the software is designed for it (not emulated). The main takeaway is that because Apple is so large and influential, their transition to Arm is a big incentive for software developers to get on board, and they already have some experience making apps for ipads on arm.
 
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