Is The EastWest Symphonic Orchestra a good first Orchestral Library?

[BlessedFountain]

The Synchronised line sorts out the reverb problem.

The key point here is that this person's computer resources is limited, it is indisputable no matter what one feels about VSL that their software player and samples programming is the best in the industry(by a long mile) and will actually run given the limited computer resources available.

Most modern VI libraries are dependent on one utilising the various mic options and positions they offer, they have not really pushed the boundaries in terms of actual programming and computer resource management. They in fact rely on and need more resources not less. What would be the point of getting a library that one can't utilise the plethora of mic options available? Or whose scripting mean constant headaches which an otherwise powerful computer would have mitigated.

So from a practical point of view I would recommend just putting the funds towards getting a more powerful computer, BF is coming up and there would be hardware deals to be had(including checking out refurbished hardware).

However if a new VI library has to be purchased, IMHO it is wiser to go for one that is designed for limited resources. A library one can actually use to it's maximum potential without headaches.

 

[ism]

The Synchronised line sorts out the reverb problem.

The key point here is that this person's computer resources is limited, it is indisputable no matter what one feels about VSL that their software player and samples programming is the best in the industry(by a long mile) and will actually run given the limited computer resources available.

Most modern VI libraries are dependent on one utilising the various mic options and positions they offer, they have not really pushed the boundaries in terms of actual programming and computer resource management. They in fact rely on and need more resources not less. What would be the point of getting a library that one can't utilise the plethora of mic options available? Or whose scripting mean constant headaches which an otherwise powerful computer would have mitigated.

So from a practical point of view I would recommend just putting the funds towards getting a more powerful computer, BF is coming up and there would be hardware deals to be had(including checking out refurbished hardware).

However if a new VI library has to be purchased, IMHO it is wiser to go for one that is designed for limited resources. A library one can actually use to it's maximum potential without headaches.

Excellent points.


I'll quality though, that in practice, with an external SSD, and a bit of purging and freezing, I can get pretty far with 8G, even using multiple mics. Another way to say - what's stopping me from writing amazing music isn't my laptop specs.


Moreover, there's a very different aesthetic that comes with ethos of the kinds of library that tend to be multi mic. And to my ear - and within the idiosyncrasies of what I like to write - it's indispensible, and entirely worth a bit of messing around with purging and freezing.

Lots of other ways to think about it of course.

 

[MauroPantin]

I started with EWQLSO and I think it was great at the time. No real legato, though, so it is sub-par by today's standards. Hollywood Orchestra is better, but still, there are quirks here and there. No library will do everything, and no library will have the exact balance of control/playability you are looking for. You always have to go under the hood to get the extra 20%, and also mix and match with other libraries.

Some people like PLAY and EW. Some people don't. If I were you, I would just get Composer Cloud for a couple of months and try it out. Then if you don't like it you can look elsewhere. Say what you want about EW, but as far as I know, they are the ONLY company in the industry that allows you to test drive the samples (for a very small fee).

 

[I like music]

Say what you want about EW, but as far as I know, they are the ONLY company in the industry that allows you to test drive the samples (for a very small fee).

Cannot overstate this point enough. World class sound, on your computer, at $30 per month, and you can cancel the subscription with a month notice (though please be careful, one or two of the options will lock you in for the year if you don't read it carefully). Given that you normally have to take (a bit of) a leap of faith with libraries, and put down some absolutely serious money, this option is unbelievably good. Despite all the good products I have acquired, I would recommend this route to anyone who is starting off in this.

 

[rudi]

A few more points:

As others have said do not spend that amount on buying a full EW library yet.
I made the mistake of buying into it before I knew what I was doing.
The Composer Cloud subscription is a good way to try EW and PLAY first, and you can cancel it.

Most major libraries use the Kontakt "Player" (check the online requirement to check those only work with the full Player) so there is no extra expense.

You should also find out whether "ensemble" patches where all the various section instruments are laid out as a single patch (for instance a blend of the violins at top, with violas, celli and basses below) are your preference (e.g Albion One Strings), or the more "traditional" layout where you have to write each instrument part individually (i.e write for 1st Violins, then 2nd Violins, Violas, Celli and Basses).

Although we tend to speak of "orchestral" libraries in general, in reality depending on their section sizes, layout, location, depth of sampling, how dry or wet, microphone positions etc. they can sound and play very differently. The "ideal" orchestral sound is a very personal thing... only you can decide which it is.

Some can sound like a more traditional concert orchestra; others have a more cinematic sound; some are specialised to create a more specific sound, such as trailers, hyped or more gentle sounds... you need to decide which sound you want to go after. Some libraries can be used across genres, but you need to know what to do.

Walkthroughs are a very useful tool to get a taste of how they will sound - with the proviso that there are very talented composers that could make virtually any library sound good. It is also important to know if any additional processing or mastering was applied as that can affect the end result. Out of the box walk throughs are the best.

Finally, it is a process... starting with some of the basics and gradually improving.

Welcome to VIs!!!

 

[Jeremy Spencer]

I still use EWQLSO gold on my 2011 MacBook Pro and easily keep it under 8gb ram. You shouldn't have problems with it.
Another good alternative would be Orchestral Essentials by Project SAM.

+1 to this.

I actually did quite a few productions with SO Gold years ago, using only 4GB Ram, it's a very resource-friendly library. Plus, anyone who still claims PLAY is a nightmare to use is just full of balogne.

In a addition to Orchestral Essentials, I recommend Project SAM's Symphobia.

 

[Willowtree]

@JRod.Simons, @Geomir's post is on the whole very useful, however:

As most people mentioned here, it's not worth it to buy a library at full price! Especially EW libraries that go on sale (usually 50%) almost every second month!

I understand what you're saying Geomir, but I would like to add this depends heavily on the developer. A lot of sample developers never have sales, and some have a lot of sales because they have to in order to keep going.

Don't just buy things on sale, buy things you think are worth your money.

If you want, you can google search "16-bit vs 24-bit sound quality". Depending on your needs, 16-bit could be more than enough for you (unless you go very professional)! Keep in mind that Audio CDs are 16-bit sound quality, and MP3s (320kbps) even lower sound quality! And most people that use normal headphones or speakers can't even tell the difference!

There is no audible difference between 16-bit and 24-bit recordings if you're listening at a reasonable level (under 120 dB, which I sincerely hope you are since 120 dB causes instant permanent damage to your ears ).

Unless you're working with a lot of gain (unlikely with sample libraries) it's also not going to matter much for mixing, so you can safely stick to 16-bit in 90% of cases.

The quality of MP3s is highly variable. The bit rate itself can vary from at low as 8 kbit/s to 320 kbit/s.

However, I'd like to add the standard bit rate for Audio CDs is 16-bit depth and 44100 Hz sample rate, which for playback purposes is effectively the same as 320 kbit/s.

Though, the lossy data encoding used by MP3s means that a lot of information is lost when you render MP3 audio files.

In other words: For most purposes, 16-bit will be fine and will save you RAM and hard drive space, never use MP3s.

(to be clear, I'm not implying what @Geomir said is wrong or misinformation in any sense of the word, his post was very good, I'm just adding to what he said)

 

[Willowtree]

Although we tend to speak of "orchestral" libraries in general, in reality depending on their section sizes, layout, location, depth of sampling, how dry or wet, microphone positions etc. they can sound and play very differently. The "ideal" orchestral sound is a very personal thing... only you can decide which it is.

Such an excellent statement often forgotten in threads like this across the internet. Orchestral layout and seating especially is a lot more variable than many seem to think.

For example, let's take strings. I've seen some argue they prefer to leave strings in their "traditional" placement, (from left to right): Violins I, Violins II, Violas, Cellos, Double Basses. However, that particular seating didn't develop until the 20th century, a European innovation by Stokowski.

And no, unlike what the internet will have you believe, there's no such thing as "American" and "European" seating, which is just plain misinformation spread by people who don't know any better.

Anyhow, you'd want the Violins I and Violins II next to each other so they can read from each other's performance. Essential in a live performance. When recording, it may not be as important, so you might opt for a different seating: Violins I, Violas, Double Bass, Cellos, Violins II. That way, you'll get a wider sound, and having the bass in the middle may be desirable in a lot of cases.

In other words, there's no such thing as an ideal orchestral sound and as @rudi says, it's all very personal.

 

[Illico]

Welcome to VI's Control.

1- Buy and use SSD disks (you'll consume less RAM)
2- Use Composer Cloud for a couple of months and try it out
3- Wait for Spitfire BBCSO first feedback about RAM usage, etc
4- Then you'll see...do not rush.

The BBCSO (2019-20XX) seems to become the new EWQLSO library of his time (2005-2015), a new "reference".

I have EWQL Symphonic Orchestra Gold since 2016, on a I7 PC with SSD disks, first with 16 Go RAM then now with 32Go RAM (I also have some Full kontakt libs, Embertone, 8dio, etc), I'm happy with it, only need a better legato articulation.

Tips:
- Only buy libraries you REALLY need, then wait for sales (-20%, -50%, -70%)
- All libraries need a "learning curve".
- Be careful with VI forum marketing attacks

 

[AndyP]

- Be careful with VI forum marketing attacks

The most important of all points!

 

[Sopranos]

+1 to this.

I actually did quite a few productions with SO Gold years ago, using only 4GB Ram, it's a very resource-friendly library. Plus, anyone who still claims PLAY is a nightmare to use is just full of balogne.

In a addition to Orchestral Essentials, I recommend Project SAM's Symphobia.

In Logic? Care to share a project to see what a production looks like in this resource-friendly claim?

Cheers!

 

[Jeremy Spencer]

In Logic? Care to share a project to see what a production looks like in this resource-friendly claim?

Cheers!

No, it was my pre Mac days. I was using Sonar 8 on a PC (ten+ years ago). Keep in mind, that library came out when having 8GB Ram was a big deal. I don't even recall going over 2GB with larger projects.

 

[JohnG]

I think I paid $4,300 for EWQLSO complete -- when it first came out. It was worth it then, and it still has its charms.

Nevertheless, today, i would urge you (if you can), to get a better computer, most likely a desktop, and go for Spitfire's new BBC orchestra library.

 

[Jeremy Spencer]

Which is where EastWest comes in, and I settled on the QL Symphonic orchestra over the Hollywood Orchestra, mainly because I could get the Platinum-Plus version, with all the features for less than $700 (with my sweetwater student discount)

You could get the student discount on BBCSO, I think the sale ends tonight. That would get you this awesome library for $600.

 

[Geomir]

I understand what you're saying Geomir, but I would like to add this depends heavily on the developer. A lot of sample developers never have sales, and some have a lot of sales because they have to in order to keep going.

Don't just buy things on sale, buy things you think are worth your money.

Thanks for clarifying this, actually that's what I was trying to say! If someone decides to buy an EW Library, and only in that case, then it's really worth it to wait a few weeks for their next sale!

Also thanks for completing my post about 24-bit vs 16-bit vs 320 kbps. I think you covered everything in more detail! The OP should have all the information he needs!

I think I paid $4,300 for EWQLSO complete -- when it first came out. It was worth it then, and it still has its charms.

HOLY SH..!!!!

 

[Jimmy Hellfire]

It's crazy to me how on this board BBCSO is already being touted by so many as the new standard, the best orchestral package, etc., and is wholeheartedly recommended to newcomers on several occasions. Please. That's some ridiculous brand loyalty groupthink that's going on. The damn thing is not even out yet, and even when it is, it might not be the non plus ultra for everyone and anyone.

For Christ's sake, don't pre-order something that costs 750 bucks and isn't even out yet if you're planning your first orchestral samples purchase.

 

[rrichard63]

don't pre-order something that costs 750 bucks and isn't even out yet if you're planning your first orchestral samples purchase.

Absolutely, yes. But someone in the OP's situation, with up to $700 available and able to get a student discount from Spitfire, might want to wait until BBCSO has been out for a couple of weeks before buying anything else. This suggestion does assume, however, that it is likely to perform satisfactorily in 8 GB of RAM.

 

[JohnG]

This suggestion does assume, however, that it is likely to perform satisfactorily in 8 GB of RAM.

Actually, no. My suggestion to the OP, regarding BBC orchestra, was predicated on his/her getting a better computer, most likely a desktop.

And @Jimmy Hellfire -- I don't think recommending Spitfire's library is "ridiculous" at all. I have many (most?) of Spitfire's orchestral libraries, including HZ strings (which incorporates their player, and which I use constantly) so I have a reasonable basis for extrapolating that this library will be solid. In my judgement, based on experience over time, Spitfire have demonstrated a devotion to quality.

Judging by the demos, the sound of this BBC orchestra is excellent and it's quite affordable. They are offering first chairs, a surprisingly comprehensive set of articulations, and many mic positions, which makes the library flexible.

I would never suggest to someone to buy a now-14 or 15-year old library, as much as I loved EWQLSO at the time, instead of the BBC one.

Constraints?

If the OP doesn't have money for a new computer, then EWQLSO might make sense, especially on a subscription basis so he or she can try it. When it was originally issued, the manual recommended two PCs per section to run it fully. Now it probably does run pretty well on a laptop.

 

[Jimmy Hellfire]

Actually, no. My suggestion to the OP, regarding BBC orchestra, was predicated on his/her getting a better computer, most likely a desktop.

And @Jimmy Hellfire -- I don't think recommending Spitfire's library is "ridiculous" at all. I have many (most?) of Spitfire's orchestral libraries, including HZ strings (which incorporates their player, and which I use constantly) so I have a reasonable basis for extrapolating that this library will be solid. In my judgement, based on experience over time, Spitfire have demonstrated a devotion to quality.

Judging by the demos, the sound of this BBC orchestra is excellent and it's quite affordable. They are offering first chairs, a surprisingly comprehensive set of articulations, and many mic positions, which makes the library flexible.

I would never suggest to someone to buy a now-14 or 15-year old library, as much as I loved EWQLSO at the time, instead of the BBC one.

Not suggesting that EWQLSO would be the more sensible choice. I'd most certainly recommend BBCSO over EWQLSO - obviously.

It just strikes me as quite laughable that BBCSO is already being treated as the 2nd coming of Christ by some, which just is ridiculous, given the fact that absolutely noone was able to get their hands on the thing yet. And these are exactly the people who in a matter of 2 months will be back on the quest for the ultimate, no this time for real, must have thing that will totally elevate everything they do. No matter the pedigree and track record of any developer - they all have some duds and things can always turn out not that optimal. Many times bitten, in the meantime a bit more shy.

Not saying that this will be the case with BBCSO, mind you. In fact, to me it seems that it's gonna be more of the same. Which should be pretty great overall, but still not for everybody and not quite the magic bullet. I have a lot of SF stuff too, and it's been hit and miss, so I too have a reasonable basis for extrapolating that "wait and see" is a sensible approach.

 

[Geomir]

@JRod.Simons

Another laptop-friendly orchestral library (that is rarely mentioned in this forum) is UVI's Orchestral Suite. It has a modern easy-to-use interface, it's less than 5GB and it contains all the orchestral essentials (strings, brass, woodwinds, percussion), including all instruments in solo versions (but don't expect true legato of course), plus many extras, like pipe organ, choirs, classical guitar, harp and harpsichord!

UVI Orchestral Suite - The Essential Symphonic Orchestra Collection

UVI Orchestral Suite - Including over 60 instruments, Orchestral Suite delivers a stunning natural realism and exquisite playability

www.uvi.net

There are many demos, you can judge for yourself. Maybe this suites you perfectly until you get that desktop PC that will allow you to run newer and bigger libraries, like i.e. EWHO, Steinberg Iconica, OT Metropolis Ark(s) or Spitfire's BBC Orchestra (among others).