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I don't have tracks with them but I had a conversation with someone in their AR department. The deal seemed to be 600 USD each track but it was like a buyout so no sync fees etc. This was about 2 years ago though.
 
will_m said:
I don't have tracks with them but I had a conversation with someone in their AR department. The deal seemed to be 600 USD each track but it was like a buyout so no sync fees etc. This was about 2 years ago though.
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See here's what I don't get. I'm all for keeping the writers share, but while I certainly have tracks that make more than $600, I have a fair amount of tracks that made close to $0.
Keeping in mind that some people crank out 1-2 tracks a day, at 2 a day that's $6000 a week.
For $6000 a week, I'd sell my liver, kidney and possibly a lung :grin:

Even at measly 2 tracks a week, that $5000 a month.
Now, I don't know how likely they are to accept all your tracks, but I know composers who'd die to make $5000 a month.

:confused:
 
R. Soul said:
See here's what I don't get. I'm all for keeping the writers share, but while I certainly have tracks that make more than $600, I have a fair amount of tracks that made close to $0.
Keeping in mind that some people crank out 1-2 tracks a day, at 2 a day that's $6000 a week.
For $6000 a week, I'd sell my liver, kidney and possibly a lung :grin:

Even at measly 2 tracks a week, that $5000 a month.
Now, I don't know how likely they are to accept all your tracks, but I know composers who'd die to make $5000 a month.

:confused:
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There is a potential there but like you say you have to have the tracks accepted. Its also a hard pill to swallow if they license your piece for say a few thousand and you make 600 dollars.
 
will_m said:
There is a potential there but like you say you have to have the tracks accepted. Its also a hard pill to swallow if they license your piece for say a few thousand and you make 600 dollars.
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I've heard from some people that tracks make a lot more in sales than $600, so accepting the deal seems like effectively giving up a lot of amount money from license / sync fees that you'll never see.

Also, I'm not sure how many tracks they'd accept either.

For the record, I'd never accept $600 for a complete sync buy out of any track which I thought was 'good'. I don't think almost any of my 'good' tracks have made less than that from sync in their lifetimes.
 
Since I have been working with them for more than 5 years now, I can say this. It may be not the cream of the crop in terms of licensing deals (in regards to high profile licenses like trailers, commercials or TV) but it is also no Audiojungle or Pond5 either. In the end they are a business, and the initial aim of a business is to make money. From my experience, when you have a batch of ten tracks that they sign, that's a 6k figure directly in your pocket, plus the writers share for everything that runs on air (which can add up over time significantly).
Although I have no direct insight into the hard facts in terms of what my tracks have made, I know that on average one of these ten cues pays for the batch and then some. If they're lucky there's more tracks that run well, but when and if at all, is absulutely at their own risk. The "risk" for you as a composer is to loose on sync if a track might have performed well (or better) elsewhere where you keep your sync, maybe 50/50. For me that's a lot of ifs and maybes. Over the years having such a deal at hand has saved my a&& many many times when cash flow was low or I had time in between other projects. I totally understand that some people will be put off by the fact that they get 600 bucks for a track that may make them 6000 in sync. But we all know this biz is a gamble and the great thing about our "product" is , that I can always do something "similar" to what I've done and given away again, and again and again. They also have evolved over the years and raised there standards and what they accept nowadays, it's more about quality than quantity meanwhile.
 
de_signs said:
Since I have been working with them for more than 5 years now, I can say this. It may be not the cream of the crop in terms of licensing deals (in regards to high profile licenses like trailers, commercials or TV) but it is also no Audiojungle or Pond5 either. In the end they are a business, and the initial aim of a business is to make money. From my experience, when you have a batch of ten tracks that they sign, that's a 6k figure directly in your pocket, plus the writers share for everything that runs on air (which can add up over time significantly).
Although I have no direct insight into the hard facts in terms of what my tracks have made, I know that on average one of these ten cues pays for the batch and then some. If they're lucky there's more tracks that run well, but when and if at all, is absulutely at their own risk. The "risk" for you as a composer is to loose on sync if a track might have performed well (or better) elsewhere where you keep your sync, maybe 50/50. For me that's a lot of ifs and maybes. Over the years having such a deal at hand has saved my a&& many many times when cash flow was low or I had time in between other projects. I totally understand that some people will be put off by the fact that they get 600 bucks for a track that may make them 6000 in sync. But we all know this biz is a gamble and the great thing about our "product" is , that I can always do something "similar" to what I've done and given away again, and again and again. They also have evolved over the years and raised there standards and what they accept nowadays, it's more about quality than quantity meanwhile.
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Since it's more about quality than quantity for music there now, $600 for a full buyout doesn't seem like a good deal to me at all. If it was $600 for a quick track you can make in a day then sure.

Also, $600 is 12 sales of a track (or 24 if let's say you get 50% of the license fee). I'd be very, very surprised if a track that's good enough to get accepted now, doesn't make at least 24 sales on Premium Beat in a year. Extremely surprised.

I've heard from other Premium Beat composers whose tracks make way more than $600 over their lifetimes. I've also heard that, as you say too, since the syncs are usually not very high profile or for broadcast, that the writer's share of royalties is very little, if anything.

If Premium Beat like your music, you could always ask them for a percentage split which is normal with other libraries.
 
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tsk said:
Since it's more about quality than quantity for music there now, $600 for a full buyout doesn't seem like a good deal to me at all. If it was $600 for a quick track you can make in a day then sure.

Also, $600 is 12 sales of a track (or 24 if let's say you get 50% of the license fee). I'd be very, very surprised if a track that's good enough to get accepted now, doesn't make at least 24 sales on Premium Beat in a year. Extremely surprised.

I've heard from other Premium Beat composers whose tracks make way more than $600 over their lifetimes. I've also heard that, as you say too, since the syncs are usually not very high profile or for broadcast, that the writer's share of royalties is very little, if anything.

If Premium Beat like your music, you could always ask them for a percentage split which is normal with other libraries.
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Overall, each to their own, of course you could try to negotiate with them a 50/50 deal instead of a buyout (although I doubt that) but of course you don't have to deal with them if you don't like their deal. For me it has worked out greatly and in terms of royalties (I actually have quite a lot TV placements with my catalogue there).
Do better deals exist... of course, but I personally find it to be a fruitful and monetary interesting side solution to other revenue streams I am working with.
 
de_signs said:
From my experience, when you have a batch of ten tracks that they sign, that's a 6k figure directly in your pocket, plus the writers share for everything that runs on air (which can add up over time significantly).
The "risk" for you as a composer is to loose on sync if a track might have performed well (or better) elsewhere where you keep your sync, maybe 50/50.
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So at the end of the day it boils down to whether or not you think your your sync alone is worth more than $600 as you STILL get writers share. In my experience this is standard procedure in US and $600 is certainly more than several large indies and majors I know of. I really don't see the bad side to this.
 
R. Soul said:
So at the end of the day it boils down to whether or not you think your your sync alone is worth more than $600 as you STILL get writers share. In my experience this is standard procedure in US and $600 is certainly more than several large indies and majors I know of. I really don't see the bad side to this.
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Honestly, we as composers not seeing the bad side to this is how we will write ourselves out of a job.

The bad side is when they sync your track to the value of more than $1,200. Then you're losing out on money you otherwise would have earned. Over a period of 5 years, that's pretty possible, if not extremely likely in my opinion.

If they license the track 6 times on I think their extended license at $199, then that's happened already.

Although we may also be competing against each other, we as a whole have to help each other to avoid being taken advantage of. Remember, there is no composers union advising me on Premium Beat's contract when I sign with them, and I can't easily team up with other composers to get a better deal. I also can't easily go round and discuss with a legal rep since it's so expensive for an individual, and even if I could what good would it do when I would be the only trying to negotiate? I think right now is a time of opportunity, but also a time when things could get real ugly for composers in production music.

How is your 50% writer's share going to look when Netflix, Amazon and Hulu take over completely and we're left with only the totally awful streaming royalties? Then you've given up pretty much everything as far as I can tell!
 
Just being curious but how does someone work with Premium Beat? Do you submit tracks and they get back in touch whether they accept them and then talk about a deal or is it invite only etc? I only ask cause I'm working with a few publishers now and they all work differently.

EDIT... Just found the Submission page and small print.

Probably worth a punt. Especially for those times when the piggy jar is deflated and dinner consists of Stale Bread and Super Noodles. ;)
 
tsk said:
Honestly, we as composers not seeing the bad side to this is how we will write ourselves out of a job.

The bad side is when they sync your track to the value of more than $1,200. Then you're losing out on money you otherwise would have earned. Over a period of 5 years, that's pretty possible, if not extremely likely in my opinion.

If they license the track 6 times on I think their extended license at $199, then that's happened already.

Although we may also be competing against each other, we as a whole have to help each other to avoid being taken advantage of. Remember, there is no composers union advising me on Premium Beat's contract when I sign with them, and I can't easily team up with other composers to get a better deal. I also can't easily go round and discuss with a legal rep since it's so expensive for an individual, and even if I could what good would it do when I would be the only trying to negotiate? I think right now is a time of opportunity, but also a time when things could get real ugly for composers in production music.

How is your 50% writer's share going to look when Netflix, Amazon and Hulu take over completely and we're left with only the totally awful streaming royalties? Then you've given up pretty much everything as far as I can tell!
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So out of the 100s or even 1000s of tracks you have out there you are telling me that you make on average more $600 in sync alone - per track?

I just had statement through from an exclusive library - with no sync buy out - making me a whopping £0.07 for all of 2017 for around 8 tracks. Yes, that might well be Netflix etc. but I doubt I'll ever make $600 per track here.
Sure, if you can place every track with Universal or Extreme, you certainly don't need Premium beat, but I don't see mid range or lower tier libraries making you any decent money.
 
$600 per track and keep writers share?! thats very good if you can do two to four tracks a week. you only loose the sync licnese and publishing so thats good probability wise. the chances to get sync license is already very low.
i guess some folks are still aiming for the high pedestal and get one huge sync lincese but with todays competition i think money upfront like this, almost like a proper well paid day job might not be bad at all. thats of course, if they accept all the tracks submitted.
and if sync deals is a concern im sure there are other libraries out there to not put all eggs in one basket.
 
gsilbers said:
$600 per track and keep writers share?! thats very good if you can do two to four tracks a week. you only loose the sync licnese and publishing so thats good probability wise. the chances to get sync license is already very low.
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Not in Europe, sync fees are still alive here, unlike in the US, where they have been withering for years.
 
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