Your Notation Software?

[Markus Kohlprath]

I can't decide if I ''need" to. Do you think the printed music looks better, or is that up to personal skill level?

I played with Dorico a lot last nite. RIght now, it's sluggish. Something like copying and pasting one bar has a slight delay, etc. I do see the potential down the road. I can't see much of a difference with printed sheet music. If I were doing Xenakis, I think it would be a no-brainer that Dorico would be much better. For Leroy Anderson-ish symphony scores, I'm not seeing much of a difference. I've asked symphony players about what they think of my sheet music and they see zero problems. Maybe I just like new toys.

I would say if you are fine with sibelius there is certainly no need to switch. For me it was since version 7 and the change to the subscription model that I had the feeling I don't get what I pay for anymore and the updates hardly made any sense to me. But I don't write scores for professional orchestras and have no need to exchange it with other orchestrators. I just want to to decide myself if and when I want/need to update.

 

[Thundercat]

I would say if you are fine with sibelius there is certainly no need to switch. For me it was since version 7 and the change to the subscription model that I had the feeling I don't get what I pay for anymore and the updates hardly made any sense to me. But I don't write scores for professional orchestras and have no need to exchange it with other orchestrators. I just want to to decide myself if and when I want/need to update.

I’m the same. I bought Sibelius version 7.5 and then reluctantly “upgraded” to the subscription model a couple years later. Not one new feature did I use. I feel I wasted $120 and so stopped paying and went back to 7.5.

To me it’s a ripoff to have to keep paying every month. Updates used to be around $100 every year or two and then you owned it.

Now I use Dorico too but find it VERY counterintuitive - although scores look much better with much less fuss.

 

[Sears Poncho]

I would say if you are fine with sibelius there is certainly no need to switch.

Excellent advice.

I spent some time tonight "goofing" around with Sibelius, even though I have used it every day for years. Kinda running through features I don't usually use etc. It's a great program. When Avid pulled all the nonsense in 2013, they really damaged the product's reputation. That really shouldn't be the case, as their reputation should be damaged but the product is still great. The latest update is good and is hope for the future. I think the current team is figuring out how to make progress.

 

[tmhuud]

Ah yes, i know this feeling.
IPad Pro nice, was thinking about it and thought the notation software would be the weak point.

How does your workflow work? (iPad to computer)?

mostly iPad to piano. The pro is a nice size so if you have a good amount of sheet music it fits nicely on the pro and if you have an AirTurn, rifling thru pages is easy peasy. In Notion you can save in different formats and import those into your DAW, etc. I feel like palm rejection technology took a bit to work for lefties but I’m not having too many issues with it as of late.

 

[Markus Kohlprath]

Now I use Dorico too but find it VERY counterintuitive - although scores look much better with much less fuss.

I think it's because the two programs are so different from ground up. I'm sure we can get as used to dorico as we were with sibelius. What helps is setting up individual keycommands. This works better than in sibelius I find. But changing habits that are trained for years is always a pita. But maybe not bad for our brains to stay flexible.

 

[Shakuhachi]

mostly iPad to piano. The pro is a nice size so if you have a good amount of sheet music it fits nicely on the pro and if you have an AirTurn, rifling thru pages is easy peasy. In Notion you can save in different formats and import those into your DAW, etc. I feel like palm rejection technology took a bit to work for lefties but I’m not having too many issues with it as of late.

mostly iPad to piano. The pro is a nice size so if you have a good amount of sheet music it fits nicely on the pro and if you have an AirTurn, rifling thru pages is easy peasy. In Notion you can save in different formats and import those into your DAW, etc. I feel like palm rejection technology took a bit to work for lefties but I’m not having too many issues with it as of late.

ah, I am lefty too, I know your pain. Happy they considered a little bit more the 10% of people here.
You really motivated me, I will have a look. Thanks for sharing

 

[wst3]

Musescore (the program) doesn't require a subscription, it's free software.

Musescore.com is a community site to share music written with Musescore. It has a subscription option.

OK, that would be the first bit that I missed! Thanks!!

 

[Henu]

Hey, one question on Dorico which I find impossible to find an answer for.

Does Dorico actually need the Elicencer or not? I tried to install the SE version for trying it out, and was under the impression that this one doesn't need but a serial- but alas, I was forced to register it to my Elicencer. Thus, I'm pretty sure that if this stripped-down miniversion wants to be tied into an Elicencer, Elements and Pro will want it as well.

Which brings me to my second question- is it really so that I cannot use Dorico (any version, it seems) with two computers without actually plugging the Elicencer into the machine I want to use? Because even though the soft-elicencer would technically even work, then Dorico would be tied to one particular computer. Can anyone tell me how does it go?

PS: On top of all this, I couldn't even get the SE working. Even though I have the SE now tied to my Elicencer and supposedly installed, I'm still forced to use Dorico Pro trial version when I open it, even though it's way too much for someone like me who is only dipping his toes into the murky waters of notation software.

 

[Sears Poncho]

I had to re-write a fairly large orchestration in one day, copyright-ish issues (not on my end). Note to self (and maybe others): Never ever switch notation programs. Never. Ever. I've known this program (Sibelius) since version 3, I've logged a few million notes. If I switched to another, it would take years and years to learn.

Sibelius is fast. Avid is the epitome of Corporate greed IMO, but the program makes it easy to fly.

 

[MichaelBarry]

Stuck on Sibelius - have often thought of changing for more of this or that. But I had enough of a time changing from Sib 6 to Ultimate (via the loss of menu items on the ribbon.) It is good advice to stick with what you know. Dorico has me always curious though.

 

[Sears Poncho]

Dorico has me always curious though.

Me too, hence my above post. I have the Dorico SE freebie and have been messing with it. No doubt that a great program is coming. I just have too much time invested in Sibelius and it would be foolish to try and undo that. Moving notes in Sib. is up or down arrow, in Dorico it is shift/arrows. This stuff would drive be nuts.

I'm the principal arranger for a symphony, I do "pops" and other non-classical shows. If I was doing modern classical music I'd switch right away. Sibelius can't do basic things like cadenzas without a little trickery. 3/4 against 9/8, same thing. But I don't do that stuff. Maybe when I get to my Ligeti phase, I will switch.

 

[giwro]

Finale user since 1994 (bought it with a student discount to score my composition Sr. recital pieces!)
Later on I tried Sibelius, Notion, Overture, and now on Dorico 3 (which seems to be VERY stable after the latest 3.x release)

Dorico has take a bit to get used to, since the workflow is different than 26+ years of habit in Finale, but I simply conformed to the new keystrokes/shortcuts/etc and learned them without bitching about it... once I got it concepts in my brain, it is actually faster than Finale (and I am/was FAST scoring in Finale!).

Funny thing, though... for certain projects, I will still fire up Finale 25 - there are some things I just can do faster (and I'm more familiar with it still). Or, if I'm on a tight deadline, it's still Finale all the way, since I know the likelihood of having to look up how to do something obscure is pretty slim. Dorico I mostly use for fun projects, or experiment with VI (which is much easier in Dorico, as is the MIDI editing)

I could probably switch now - with the latest release I think it's finally got most all of what I need...

Having said that, I'll have to keep up on Finale, as most of my composers use it (a scant few on Sibelius) and I have a LOT of scores still in that format (with no time to export to MXML and re-do in Dorico)

YMMV.

As has been said, if you're a hobbyist, try 'em all and buy/use what you like. If you're a pro (or aspiring pro), get and learn what the majority of the field you're entering uses.

 

[michaelrohanek]

Thanks. This is the stuff that would drive me nuts.

Sibelius for 18 years, switched to Dorico. Amazing Product. I arrange for orchestra and pop/stage bands.

I think you'll find once you start using Dorico you'll see that the moving of notes is quite consistent. Option/Arrow moves the notes any direction you like, up/down/left/right. If you press cmd + shift you can move the notes an octave, or when you use option+shift+left/right it edits the duration of the note. This also applies to other objects like dynamics, lines, etc. This is a very powerful and unique feature.

Any press of the arrow keys (without modifiers) moves the selection to the adjacent similar object. Very intuitive.

Engrave mode doesn't even exist in Sibelius, the fact you can insert any selection of music/pictures/text without the hassle of placement. It works like a desktop publisher.

The more I use it I discover it's the future of scoring and only a matter of time before it becomes the de-facto choice. I just hope they dump the USB e-licenser soon. They are aware and are working on it.

 

[cmillar]

I made the switch to Dorico last year, after many years using Sibelius (...which I had switched to from having used Finale)

Most of my printed music is for my own bands, or for ensembles that have commissioned me for something and I want to give them totally professionally acceptable scores and parts.

Dorico is great. I just want to write music without having to spend days trying to get the chord symbols looking the way I like them or finding a suitable font for either commercial music or 'legit' music. I love their built-in fonts, and the chord symbols are easy to tweak if you need to do so.

The 'stock' Dorico settings are really superb, and just being able to leave most of them as they are is such a timesaver and stress reliever in itself.

Custom keystrokes can be set up. I started out using Dorico with 'Keystroke Manager', but have since discovered that I don't even need it with Dorico.

And the latest upgrade is nothing short of kind of mind-blowing.... I might even consider delving into the MIDI editing features.... as I've always used my DAW for recording/producing and always separated the written scoring from the DAW functions.

And Dorico now has 'lines' just like Sibelius does; I'd requested that when I first bought the program, and I'm sure many others did too. No complaints about anything.

Plus, you don't have to deal with the crazy Avid licensing scheme. With Dorico, you buy it and use it. The Steinberg e-licenser works great. No problems....use a desktop or your laptop. Upgrading is real easy too whenever there has been an update. Thank you Steinberg.

Do you need to 're-think' a few things when you switch? Sure!....but it doesn't take long to get into Dorico and see how smooth it is.

 

[sbarrettmusic]

Like others, I am a long time Sibelius user but I have tried Dorico and I am very interested in it. I think it is inevitable that our team will switch over to Dorico at some point, especially considering the direction Avid has been moving. For what I do, Dorico isn't quite ready for prime time but it is getting there quicker than I thought it would. The Sibelius team will really need to step up their game to compete, and I think they are trying to based some of the recent updates. The new MIDI import feature has SO much potential, but in it's current state is very clunky and has some bugs that make it unusable for what I need it to do.

 

[Sears Poncho]

Nice comments and insight in all the above posts.

The Sibelius team will really need to step up their game to compete, and I think they are trying to based some of the recent updates. The new MIDI import feature has SO much potential, but in it's current state is very clunky

Yeah. The potential is there but they seemed to have abandoned developing it (the midi import). The last update was good and shows (hopefully) that they are moving forward. Even if one doesn't switch to Dorico, it's presence is going to be positive. Avid will have to keep developing the program as it has real competition.... and of course the incredible situation that the "competition" came from Sibelius itself!

I want to give them totally professionally acceptable scores and parts.

I have asked many colleagues about Sibelius/my charts, pro players (who don't write or know much about notation programs). They think Sibelius looks great and very pro. Granted, I've never said "compare this from Sibelius to this from Dorico". I think a good amount has to do with the skills of the composer/engraver. I found some old pdf scores I made with Sibelius 3 and 5. They looked lousy. Part of that was me not having much experience back then, and part is that Sibelius 2020 has really come a long way.

I wonder if Sibelius is "good enough". Major Publishing houses use it. Question to the good folks here: do you think the actual printed music that Dorico puts out is clearly better than Sibelius? And does it matter at this point?

 

[sbarrettmusic]

Nice comments and insight in all the above posts.
Yeah. The potential is there but they seemed to have abandoned developing it (the midi import). The last update was good and shows (hopefully) that they are moving forward. Even if one doesn't switch to Dorico, it's presence is going to be positive. Avid will have to keep developing the program as it has real competition.... and of course the incredible situation that the "competition" came from Sibelius itself!

Indeed, a little competition is good for the consumer

When the import feature first came out, I emailed back and forth a bit with the developers about some ideas to improve the feature. It seemed like they were intending on developing it further but I guess they haven't gotten to it yet as the following update only addressed a few minor bugs.

 

[michaelrohanek]

My honest view is that Sibelius has no chance keeping up wth Dorico. Don't forget that Sibelius was written by the Dorico team. They know more about Sibelius than Avid do.

 

[andrzejmakal]

Hi
Short question:
Any experience with TrackPad and Sibelius? Anybody?

It' OT, I know, sorry for that, I just need an advice from advanced users here, please...

Cheers

 

[JT]

I wonder if Sibelius is "good enough". Major Publishing houses use it. Question to the good folks here: do you think the actual printed music that Dorico puts out is clearly better than Sibelius? And does it matter at this point?

Is Sibelius "good enough", sure. Most the the US publishing companies that I know of still use Finale. But I don't think that you can ever compare outputs of notation programs. They all can produce good looking score and they can all put out crap. A while back, a member of the Chicago Symphony, one of the best in the world, showed me some of his notation examples. To be blunt, it was not good. I would never think of giving the orchestra something that looked like that, yet here we had one of the best musicians in the world who thought this music looked professional.

I believe the notation programs are just like learning an instrument, you have to learn them to get really good output.