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Your experience with sax VI's?

why so surprised?

I guess not really. I’ve just always used bad sax samples before replacing them. And yea, now that I think about it even AM’s saxes aren’t going to satisfy a sax player I guess their ability to do things like bends, accents and dynamic nuances would make replacing each part one at a time much easier.
 
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I use them a lot for "work that has to be done". It works fine in brass sections and all kinds of arrangements. I don't use it as a solo voice (except this funky baritone BooDub things).

This is exactly my opinion too.
I’ve worked with top shelf players and sections, I was blessed, learned how to avoid certain voicings because Guitars and Horns tend to make you listen and or follow the arrangement.

I’ve got great Bari Bullfrogs I proudly use, and my Sections work if hidden properly amongst Brass.
My instruments are good enough to use in small ensembles with a Bari Tenor only.

But I refuse to do solo work and would never insult guys like Wayne Shorter or Marsalis by trying to riff through some KennyG-ish Snake Charmer solo.

Obviously by your Avatar you’re a ReedMan.
I wish I could gig with former Reed Men I worked with.
My fusion group is still inspiring and allows me to get through the Bruno Mars/Timberlake Tribute thing I do, but I miss the thick sound of reeds played by someone with Reeds Galore.

Won’t drop any names, but the last guy I worked with is a monster.
Once or so every night I would get a nod from him.
I practiced my ass off for those nods. They made everything worthwhile.

Sorry I get a trifle excited about Reeds and Synths (Shorter / Zawinul)

I use BBB, CHein, Session Pro and PLAY to get my Sounds.
It took 20 years but I’m not squinting from the embarrassing tones anymore.
I’m quite pleased and doing Bruno Mars stuff is challenging enough as I also cover the synths and EPS at the same time.

That was easy because I did lots of Stevie Wonders Sections and had to make sure the left hand played the Horner D6 parts.

You know there’s so many talented developers now, I bet we could get a solo sax sometime soon, but you would need so many different articulations and Reed attacks.

I’d pay 1 large for such a magnificent instrument.
 
The problem comes from the fact that the instrument is such a compromise, mechanically. It's inherently out of tune with itself. Each player learns to compensate for the particular instrument/mouthpiece combination and everyone is a little different in how they do it. The shape of your throat opening and position of your tongue inside the mouth has a massive effect on the sound you produce, along with the level of support your wind column provides. And that's just basic tone production - we haven't even gotten to the zillion things that provide nuance to the playing!
The number of things good players do intuitively is so large that I think we're a long way from a truly convincing VI. I think modeling and a second generation wind controller that responds to the subtleties I've listed will be necessary to get close. And at that point, how many will be willing to do the work necessary to use it properly?
I'm a big proponent of Audio Moding/SWAM and look forward to their next generation but I think good saxophonists still have a few years of irreplacibility left.
 
From what I've heard of the SWAM Sax, it sounds quite good (in context). However, I usually opt for a live musician for sax parts (for obvious reasons). I personally tend to find that I get the best results (in an orchestral context) by using Glory Days, especially with a live performer over the top.
 
I'm a big proponent of Audio Moding/SWAM and look forward to their next generation but I think good saxophonists still have a few years of irreplacibility left.
Oh hell even as a die-hard VST/MIDI guy I hope they have many more years than that. :) At least with live performances! It'll be a cold day in hell when I go watch someone live who's sitting there "playing" sax or guitar (etc) through a MIDI keyboard and his freaking cell phone or whatever (ie leads and solos; doing it for a little background with a band is tolerable). Even if (or likely when) the tech gets so good it's indistinguishable from the real thing, there's still nothing like watching a performer wail away on a "real" instrument.
 
PS and many thanks for all the replies. Stashing info away for future ref.
 
Also, this is my very favorite one-trick pony:

Funny, as I just mentioned in another thread, I recently tried it and was underwhelmed. Not bad though, just didn't do a lot for me.


I have received free instruments from my friends at AM, so I'm biased... but as far as control over the behavior of the instrument is concerned there's nothing I know of better than Swam saxes. Which other virtual sax could do something like this for example?
Neglected to mention before, that might be the most realistic sax VI performance I've heard yet...definitely keep them in mind.

Appreciate all the replies! It still seems to be a kind of holy grail but they are getting closer..
 
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Not perfect, you can tell they are synthesized. HOWEVER, the expressiveness these instruments allow, and their small footprint make them worth it to me. Heres the thing: maybe it doesn't replicate a sax perfectly, but it DOES sound pretty close, and it IS certainly incredibly musical if played right.

For the type of music I make, this is perfect. I do a lot of game music type stuff, and most listeners wont care if its an actual sax, but they will certainly remember a beautifully played solo with lots of emotion. These SWAM instruments can do that.

Its helpful to therefore think of these instruments as a "unique take" on a classic. You can think of them as a new, unique instrument (sorta like a Yamaha Venova or something). They are not a pure sax per se, but they are like a sax, with their own musicality and nuance.

Certainly if you are trying to make some really true-to-form lounge jazz type stuff, that will be heard by more elitist types out there who will judge harshly, you might prefer to go the sampled route, with all the individual articulations you have to program.

As for me, I am loving the synthesized alternative. I always wanted to play sax because of how incredibly expressive and emotional it can sound. SWAM does that. I wont ever learn real sax, but I can be a boss at synth sax and thats enough for me lol. It doesnt sound like a perfect recreation of a sax, but it can replicate that emotional dynamic growling and slurring, almost like a singer. Cant wait what the future brings :D
 
Well that shows how much the performance makes a diff...I can't stand that video, it does sound very obviously fake which I have no interest in. I can sacrifice a little realism for expressiveness, but not that far. I've no interest in a "new sax-like instrument," it needs to be something that is harder to tell, at least on a casual listen.
 
Fair enough :)

It doesn't help that the saxophone is probably one of the most difficult instruments to sample, because it is so incredibly expressive. Not like drums, which can be nearly perfectly replicated with proper programming, to the point where 98% of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a sampled kit properly programmed, and a recording of someone playing the kit live, mic'd the same way.

Honestly if you must have max realism, you could try the Fiverr route lol. Hire someone there to play the music and record it. Obviously you can get very mixed results, but generally the highly rated guys are actually very competent, at least with other instruments I've seen. I guess it just depends on what you need it for.

Anyways, beats the hell out of programming articulations for hours, and even a mid level saxophone player in real life will probably sound way more realistic than most programmed saxophones...
 
You're right, and I doubt anyone here would disagree, that it is if not the hardest instrument to duplicate, close to it. No interest in hiring anyone but thx for the idea. SWAM might work if I do it right. It's not like I'm trying to play Coltrane. I'm just old, impatient, lazy :)
 
@bill5 You should keep an eye out for a new company called Expressive instruments, Tenor coming out at the end of the year and the rest of the family next year. It uses a new technology that could be best described as somewhere between traditional sampling and sample modelling. Claim is if the real instrument can do it, so can this...! ;)
 
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