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You just purchased a new library for your collection, it has 17,000 new patches. How do you manage it?

Make a google spreadsheet of the patches you like an comment on them. This makes it easy to come back to your favorites so you don't spend all of your time hunting and pecking.

You anticipated the same response I was going to offer. I have just completed a Google Sheets spreadsheet of all my libraries with hotlinks to their Help support/chat/manual, vendor name, purchase date and price, vendor name, library abbreviation, general characteristics (ensemble, multis, limited articulations, best instruments, wet/dry, room etc. etc.) and one column listing go-to best patches. Sheets is FREE and VERY rich in function (instant alphabetization of any column, key word search, colorizable, very user friendly)- took only total of an hour to get very facile with it.
With that success I now intend to make a similar Sheets spreadsheet for each library focusing on the patches one library at a time as Rob has suggested. Wish I had done so when I first started purchasing libraries. In Cubase you no doubt know there is an internal database you can create and customize with metadata, etc. Plus is you can instantly load the patch from it. But I find it much less user friendly and feature rich than Sheets. Sure wish you could load patches from Sheets though directly into Cubase.
Good time with Covid to be doing this. May the Force be with you...

Bob
 
Thank you everyone, plenty of great advice!! I think I'll end up going with the tedious approach of sorting through every single patch and deleting all the bad ones, but I'll definitely try to utilize a spreadsheet in the future! also I've now been inspired to try and orchestrate a full piece with a piano first, before arranging it with other instruments.

But I'm not sure how would you go about it because duplicate notes would be pretty hard to notice with the piano, especially if you have like 6 at a time. But maybe it's not an issue? And also maybe previewing the piece in it's entirety with the piano is not the point anyways?

I guess you could also just use a few, slightly different piano patches to circumvent this (or just write the song entirely in 8 bit). Either way though I like that idea a lot since it forces you to focus on one task at a time, making each part of the process far more efficient!
 
I'm familiar with your struggle, but I have a tip to share, that may help.

once every while, I enjoy spending a night exploring libraries, and as I'm browsing the patches, I midi record whatever that patch inspires me to play, I record very rough drafts, no structure, no tempo, full of mistakes. most of the recordings are between 10 seconds to 3 mins.

each time I record something, I export it as a Wav file with the library and Patch name written in the title
I have hundreds of these files, once every while I enjoy listening to these files, and wonder which of these drafts deserve to be developed and which ones needs to be wiped out.

that way you get familiar with the patches, and you come up with ideas that are out of the box.
 
I don't use any spreadsheets, checklists, or any method other than the Mac's file system to sort, categorize, rename, and mark favorites.

I absolutely DO listen to every single instrument in a newly purchased library. Right then and there. Get it out of the way. Here is my process for Kontakt libraries:

1 - Duplicate the Instruments folder, so I can wreak havoc on the copy while leaving the originals intact.

2 - Zip the original Instruments folder into a compressed archive so it does not clutter things up. Stash it in the Documents folder which is inside most Kontakt library folders (where the manuals etc. are kept).

3 - Listen to every single Instrument. Any that I don't think I will use I delete immediately.

4 - For the ones that I do like, I rename them to conform to my preferred naming scheme (discussed at length in other threads / posts), and rename / reorganize the sub folders they live in if needed.

5 - Open Kontakt's QuickLoad window and put the ones I really, REALLY like into the appropriate sub folders in there. This may be anywhere from 10% - 100% of the Instruments that I kept from the original set.



Hi Charlie,

Thank you so much for the tips.

How do you go for Kontakt Libraries that has only one instrument but hundreds of patches in the plugin itself as they cannot be saved as QuickLoad? Like Heavyocity NOVO, Output stuff etc.

Best,
Andy
 
This is one reason why I like synthesis instead of samples - as in, starting to make my own patches.

By the time I finish going through all the Omni patches, it'll be 2027 and Omni 3 will be out with 20k more patches. I have more patches and presets in my software instruments than I could ever possibly get through - at least if I still want to actually try and make music rather than catalog and sort things.

I usually browse around a bit during a session, flagging things if the software allows it, then I either get bored and move to some other instrument/synth/library, or find something I like and start trying to build on it rather than continuing to browse.
 
This is one reason why I like synthesis instead of samples... I usually browse around a bit during a session

Speaking of synths, same here, and usually 99% of the patches arent even close to what I need at the moment. And those that are, usually have some stupid modulation that I don't know how to turn off! :D
 
Hi Charlie,

Thank you so much for the tips.

How do you go for Kontakt Libraries that has only one instrument but hundreds of patches in the plugin itself as they cannot be saved as QuickLoad? Like Heavyocity NOVO, Output stuff etc.

Best,
Andy

As you said, some Kontakt libraries are supplied with just a single .nki Instrument file but with a zillion snapshots, and some (like the excellent Sample Logic libraries) have a custom built-in content browser that allows you do individually browse, audition, and select the sample content for each of the four layers and / or for the global, effects, and sequencer sections as well.

If a library just uses NI Snapshots to organize "presets" within a single .nki, then I just make a new user Snapshots folder for that instrument, and either copy the entire factory set into that new folder and start deleting the ones I don't like, or maybe just go through the factory set and save the ones I DO like into that user folder. I try to keep my user folder separate from the factory set so that if an update gets installed it can replace the factory set without wrecking my list of favorites.

For a product that uses a custom-built browser, like Sample Logic stuff, sometimes they have a system in that custom browser for tagging favorites with a little "heart" icon or something, and if they do I'll definitely use that as I audition the content for the individual layers or whatever. In the case of a library like Sample Logic's Gamelan, there is a folder called "Presets" that contains further sets of folders containing .nka files that represent the items that appear in the various custom browsers within the UI. I've tried digging into those folders to create user-favorites folders, renaming and moving items around, but the changes I make never show up in the custom browser. I don't know how to force the Instrument to re-scan those folders, other than by quitting Kontakt and re-loading the Instrument, but the changes I've made never show up. Maybe it uses a factory-provided database or list file that populates the custom browser with the item names, and the individual .nka files are not intended to be renamed and rearranged by the user? In any case, I reckon that it's probably a little risky to muck around in there, and this is definitely something that will get replaced when installing an update to the library, so.... maybe a Kontakt Jedi like @EvilDragon will know how to do it, or tell us that it's a bad idea to mess with those files?

So for those libraries I just use the method above for saving Snapshots of the entire front-panel to my own set of user Snapshots folders. Even though that saves the entire Instrument's status, including the sound sources for all four layers, the effects and sequencer setups, etc., it's still a useful way of saving a "finished sound". Although it would be nice to be able to really mess with those per-layer .nka files to create a user-favorite set of the per-layer elements. Not a deal-breaker though either way.
 
I don't own any SL libraries so can't help much there.

However as to the question posed by Andy_P, one way of going about it would be simply loading every snapshot then resaving it as NKI. You can then add this to quickload. Macro recorder software highly recommended!
 
Well, @EvilDragon the situation with some of the Sample Logic libraries is a little different. There is a single .nki and the UI has a custom browser built-in, with multiple levels for which patches can be browsed:

- At the highest level, browsing patches is basically the same as Snapshots - they recall the status of all controls in the UI, including what sound source is chosen for each of the four layers, the status of the step sequencer + modulators page, and a global set of effects. No issue there, as a saved Snapshot can recall everything that the built-in browser can. Think of these as if they were "multis" in a Korg workstation keyboard - four individual presets with an automatable X-Y pad to mix between them, routed through a global effects rack and with an array of step sequencers that can be routed to any destination among the four sources.

- The next level down, however, is where you can browse from categorized lists for the sound sources for each of the four layers in a preset. These are not just a sample map; each source brings with it complex modulation, tuning, effects + filter settings, etc. Think of these as if they were the individual presets that make up a multi in a Korg workstation - they each have two sample maps and a single shared set of filters and modulators, and a small selection of effects like distortion, saturation, etc.

- Then there are browsers for the individual settings files for the step sequencer + modulators page, and another for the global effects rack.

All of the items that appear in each of those levels of browser are present in the library folders as .nka files (are these "array" files or what? I dunno.), but renaming / moving these files is not reflected in the custom browsers in the UI. And for all except the highest level, it doesn't make sense to use Snapshots to store them since the custom browser lets you pick elements for just one of the four layers at a time, without disturbing your carefully-set-up other three layers.

You DO have the ability to save a custom edit of these elements to disc, but they wind up as .nka files in Users>Documents>Gamelan instead of within the actual Gamelan library folder itself - which is good from the standpoint of updates being pushed, since installing an update to the library will not wipe your custom-saved items - but they do not appear in the custom browser within the UI. You can only load and save them from disc using little buttons in the UI and dealing with standard open/save dialogs, but not browse them within the normal tagged custom browser, and you can't edit / rename / delete / move the stock items which do show up in the browser.

So you can just take the time to roll through all of the factory items and save out your favorites, but you won't be able to use the slick browser that Sample Logic went to so much trouble to implement, and won't be able to use next + previous buttons, etc. Not a total disaster, but an irritation nonetheless.

It appears that the custom browser is populated with a list of the factory .nka files, but is not actually scanning their names from disc, which is a little weird - but maybe I'm just not doing whatever needs to be done to force the instrument to re-scan the directories containing the factory .nka files and re-populate its custom browser lists with the contents of those folders.

If I knew the secret to that, I could really mess up the instrument by removing / renaming / moving the factory .nka files to show only my favorites. Risky, but you know me... Of course one could make a .zip of the factory items before running amok so you could get back to the stock load after you ruin everything, and of course your newly small-ified list will be ignoring gigabytes of sample content which you can't eliminate, so it's not like you'll be saving disc space, only reducing clutter and unwanted items in the custom browsers, and allowing for user-specified names for those items while still having them show in the custom browser instead of forcing you to manually load them one at a time from disc.

Not the end of the world, but one of those things I wish I knew how to control.
 
(are these "array" files or what? I dunno.)

Yep, they are. Basically only used by KSP, and nothing else. That's why you can't put them in the database or QL.

but renaming / moving these files is not reflected in the custom browsers in the UI

File browser widget in KSP is only refreshed when you reopen the NKI, it does not respond to any changes in its structure while the NKI is opened.

You DO have the ability to save a custom edit of these elements to disc, but they wind up as .nka files in Users>Documents>Gamelan instead of within the actual Gamelan library folder itself - which is good from the standpoint of updates being pushed, since installing an update to the library will not wipe your custom-saved items - but they do not appear in the custom browser within the UI. You can only load and save them from disc using little buttons in the UI and dealing with standard open/save dialogs, but not browse them within the normal tagged custom browser, and you can't edit / rename / delete / move the stock items which do show up in the browser.

Yeah, this is by design of load_array()/save_array() commands in KSP, which for Kontakt Player libraries do save their stuff in Documents folder, rather than Data folder at the same level where NKR is, but then the file browser widget in KSP can only be pointed at a single base path, which is usually the folder that contains all the NKAs that you can see there. There are also load_array_str()/save_array_str() commands which allow saving NKAs to a specific path on the hard drive, which is what SL should have used in this situation in order to show your user presets in the very same file browser on the GUI (after that tedious NKI reload, of course).

It appears that the custom browser is populated with a list of the factory .nka files, but is not actually scanning their names from disc, which is a little weird

This is impossible, to my knowledge. File browser in KSP is explicitly linked to one basepath and will scan everything within that path, it cannot be programatically told which files to include and display (apart from choosing if it will show NKAs, or MIDI files, or WAV/NCW files). So it's a matter of finding what this basepath is (shouldn't be too complicated, if the script is not locked, look for $CONTROL_PAR_BASEPATH and see where it points to), then putting your NKAs in a subfolder in that path. Then on the next NKI reload you should be able to see them there.


Which SL library is in question, btw?
 
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Thanks for all the detailed info @EvilDragon - now I feel like I understand how the SL custom browsers work. SL use these in-UI browsers for a lot of their titles, they obviously spent a lot of time building their four-layer, X-Y pad mixable, step-sequencable, user-tag browse-able UI and they have deployed it on a bunch of their more expensive titles by simply changing the underlying sample content, creating new .nka files specific to that content, and giving the UI a cosmetic re-skin to suit.

CineMorphX, the Cinematic Guitars series (in the recent re-do they issued), Motion Keys, Morphestra2, Gamelan, and maybe a couple of others I've missed. It seems they only use this on the more "playable" (and expensive) libraries and not the ones that are primarily phrase-based or sequencer/arpeggiator based. It's more useful on something like Morphestra2 or Cinematic Guitars where there's just a ton of pad/ambience/texture sample maps that you want to layer, effect, and X-Y mix. It actually is a pretty great implementation of a very complex custom UI, so I'm not at all mad that they keep rolling it out in different titles with new sample content under the same UI - saves you the trouble of relearning where everything is.

Now that you've told me that the file browser widget in KSP does refresh upon loading the .nki I will do some more testing to see if we are able to mess with the contents of the factory .nka set and see those changes reflected in the custom browser. But in my first round of experimentation I did close the instrument (but not quit Kontakt standalone), and then duplicate + rename + move some of the factory .nka items to new user-created folders within the factory directories, and then reloaded the .nki but I didn't see those changes reflected in the custom browser - and so I thought (perhaps mistakenly) that it was not possible to make changes to the factory directory structure and have those changes reflected in the browser. I will do more testing to determine whether this is possible.

Either way it's not the end of the world, but in the interest of thoroughness it would be nice if one could have complete control over those elements, as opposed to having the in-UI browser act like a "ROM bank" with any user settings needing to be stored across the hall and up on a shelf. Then I could roll through the factory .nka's, delete+move+rename the items to create a "greatest hits" list, and work from that condensed list. I understand why this might be risky however - I'm not sure if the top-level .nka's (the ones that are equivalent to whole-UI Snapshots) contain the dependent settings, or actually need to find (by name) and load the lower-level .nka files on which they depend (individual presets for the four layers, sequencer, and effects). If the top-level .nka depends on the lower-level .nka files being in the right location with the right name then remodeling the lower-level directories would render many of the top-level .nka files inoperable.

Similarly, I'm also unsure if ordinary Snapshots contain the lower-level settings, or if they refer to the lower-level .nka files and need them to have the correct name and be in the correct location. If the latter is the case then one could not safely use Snapshots to replace top-level .nka files and then play fast and loose with rearranging lower-level .nka's.

In the end, there's not so many of the lower-level .nka files that you can't work fast until you've gone through them with a fine-toothed comb, and just using Snapshots to store your favorite finished patches as well as a few "good starting points" that refer to your favorite per-layer .nka files is an acceptable way to work.

It's just fun to find out exactly how these things work. Being able to confidently wrangle those elements is valuable when operating in a hurry on a complex project.
 
Similarly, I'm also unsure if ordinary Snapshots contain the lower-level settings, or if they refer to the lower-level .nka files and need them to have the correct name and be in the correct location.

Snapshots simply contain everything in the patch. They don't reference any NKA files. Anything that is a persistent variable or array or UI control is stored in a snapshot.
 
Trevor Morris touches on that in his template videos. Basically, he has a section of his template named "to audit" or something like this where he chunks in the new stuff. He listens to it and then move the patch to its correct location in the template or discards it.
 
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