Will libraries-backed notation software replace DAW?

[Saxer]

One day you'll be able to place a suction pod on your temple and it will wirelessly send your notation directives to your iPhone, from which you'll be able to print out your perfectly engraved score and parts, and listen to the score playback from a very high grade technology that renders a flawless orchestral performance. But with the way 2020 is going so far, I’m guessing it won't be this year.

That's right!

But as always: the easier it is to mockup orchestras the less people want to hear more of it. Successfull creativity is always on the off beaten path.

 

[jonnybutter]

I think you are a little confused about what Staffpad is actually for. It is not trying to replace or be a traditional DAW or engraving application.

It is a composition tool.

I just got Staffpad a couple of days ago, and am still getting used to it. It may take a while! After 50+ years with paper and pencil, old (slovenly!) writing habits die hard. But I know I will love it once I get the hang of it.

Someday, capabilities like this will likely be just another part of DAWs - notation being one of multiple ways to input music. But as it is now, it doesn't come near replacing a DAW. I'm not planning on getting the add-on libraries. As Michael and others say, it's a compositional tool, not a mock up tool (at least for stuff I write). I love the idea of sketching anywhere I happen to be and being able to try different things quickly without getting covered in eraser dust!

 

[NoamL]

And here I’m moving back to pen and paper these days.

The fact that I show MIDI output to any of the classical composers (or even 20th century modern composers such John Williams) and they wouldn't have a clue speaks volumes.

That kind of underlines why StaffPad/NotePerformer/etc. is the worst of both worlds. John Williams wouldn't use StaffPad any more than he would use Logic. He doesn't need to hear a mockup.

For those who do need mockups either as part of their own creative process or to get cues approved, StaffPad & NotePerformer just don't reach the level of professional use and that is if you have a traditional symphonic score with traditional recording techniques and no production elements... that's few scores...

I think there is a niche for notation based DAWs to take over the future, but StaffPad/NotePerformer are not close to being DAWs. Seems more likely that the gap will be bridged from the other side with Cuborico (Doribase?)

 

[Eric G]

For those who do need mockups either as part of their own creative process or to get cues approved, StaffPad & NotePerformer just don't reach the level of professional use and that is if you have a traditional symphonic score with traditional recording techniques and no production elements... that's few scores...

I think there is a niche for notation based DAWs to take over the future, but StaffPad/NotePerformer are not close to being DAWs. Seems more likely that the gap will be bridged from the other side with Cuborico (Doribase?)

Hi NoamL,

If you show John Williams MIDI, he is not going to understand it. Show him notation (i.e. from a StaffPad Screen) and we can have a conversation. Same thing for Logic's notation screen. Its the language of music. Not MIDI.

BTW, Have you tried to use Dorico today with a full orchestra sample library template? I have in December 2019. My 64GB 16 Core Threadripper drops to its knees. IT.DOES.NOT.WORK. PERIOD. And I wanted it to work SO BAD. And then StaffPAD came out with their release in late January.

Doricobase is much further away than StaffPad (Lightyears). And Cuborico. Laughable.

AS I STATED, DAWS will not be eliminated due to MIXING and MASTERING workflows. And composers that can play the piano, I don't see how StaffPad is better. So I don't see the problem with my post.

 

[Michael Antrum]

For those who do need mockups either as part of their own creative process or to get cues approved, StaffPad & NotePerformer just don't reach the level of professional use ......

I use Staffpad and it's become a cornerstone of my workflow. I really don't get what you are saying.

I write in Staffpad, and then either into Dorico or Cubase as/if required.

It saves me from going to paper and then having to input it all again in Dorico, and then discover I have made a few errors and need to write out large sections again.

I can sit in the garden / restaurant / airplane seat / house of ill repute / beach (don't tell the police) etc......I can get out and away from my desk - hurrah ! I can try out ideas and get instant feedback of how it works. All from a square of glass held in one hand.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood even JW composes at the piano ?

I'm stuck in a hotel in Edinburgh tonight, and all I had to bring with me was my ipad + pencil, then I can get comfy on the extremely swish hotel bed and I'm sorted for the evening....

AS I STATED, DAWS will not be eliminated due to MIXING and MASTERING workflows. And composers that can play the piano, I don't see how StaffPad is better. So I don't see the problem with my post.

I'm a pianist (in fact I've often been called a coomplete and utter pianist), but the fact remains that I don't always have a piano on me, and even when I do, I would have had a scorepad on the piano. Now I have an ipad there instead.

Staffpad is a great tool, it's not perfect by a long chalk, and it's certainly not for everyone. But it was never intended to be DAW, nor an engraving program. But to say it's not a professional tool, I think, is wrong. (even though I'm not a professional).

 

[bill stokes]

Most of my work is notation-based. I'm using Sibelius 7.5 with NotePerformer plugin. Also using Logic and a large dog's breakfast of samples.
I really like NotePerformer for Orchestral stuff. Does it sound like the Boston Symphony? No. Neither do the virtual orchestras. I'll try linking to a short piece I wrote for strings and a few wind instruments.
I want to record this (and a bunch of other music) with a good ensemble, in a good room. Tough to put that together. Expensive too.
NotePerformer playback.

In reply to the original post, I hope the technology keeps getting better. I'm one of the young people (65 yo) who jumped on this boat.
p.s. Sorry to blather on about NotePerformer in a thread about Staffpad. Some of those samples were gorgeous, by the way.

 

[Eric G]

I'm a pianist (in fact I've often been called a coomplete and utter pianist), but the fact remains that I don't always have a piano on me, and even when I do, I would have had a scorepad on the piano. Now I have an ipad there instead.

Staffpad is a great tool, it's not perfect by a long chalk, and it's certainly not for everyone. But it was never intended to be DAW, nor an engraving program. But to say it's not a professional tool, I think, is wrong. (even though I'm not a professional).

I stand corrected . My point was trying to be fair because many professional composers do composition at the piano/keyboard with the DAW connected to it translating it to MIDI. So it is much easier for them to "play in" their ideas into the DAW and MIDI. And writing notation can slow them down.

I am not a keyboardist so writing notation has always been my natural go to. Sibelius and Dorico with keyboard input is cumbersome IMHO. I would prefer to write notation. Therefore StaffPad is better for MY personal workflow.

 

[NoamL]

I use Staffpad and it's become a cornerstone of my workflow. I really don't get what you are saying.

I write in Staffpad, and then either into Dorico or Cubase as/if required.

I hadn't considered the workflow of using Staffpad as a sketch pad before bringing the MIDI into Cubase. Interesting.

If you show John Williams MIDI, he is not going to understand it. Show him notation (i.e. from a StaffPad Screen) and we can have a conversation. Same thing for Logic's notation screen. Its the language of music. Not MIDI.

I am classically trained, you don't have to convince me that sheet music is better than MIDI, the problem is, cues do not get approved without a MIDI mockup anymore.

 

[Michael Antrum]

I stand corrected . My point was trying to be fair because many professional composers do composition at the piano/keyboard with the DAW connected to it translating it to MIDI. So it is much easier for them to "play in" their ideas into the DAW and MIDI. And writing notation can slow them down.

Absolutely agree with you that this is the most popular route, but I'm guessing this is because many people arent all that comfortable writing in notation, and also because many people write 'to the samples'. (Not that here's anything wrong with that - It's just a different, as far as I can see, more popular way of working).

Personally, I'm not good enough to keep track of all the different instrument voices in my head, so thats why Staffpad is such a great method for me.

Also, I'm studying orchestration and Staffpad is a great tool for learning. (The more I learn the more I realise I need to learn !).

 

[Eric G]

Absolutely agree with you that this is the most popular route, but I'm guessing this is because many people arent all that comfortable writing in notation, and also because many people write 'to the samples'. (Not that here's anything wrong with that - It's just a different, as far as I can see, more popular way of working).

Personally, I'm not good enough to keep track of all the different instrument voices in my head, so thats why Staffpad is such a great method for me.

Also, I'm studying orchestration and Staffpad is a great tool for learning. (The more I learn the more I realise I need to learn !).

Exactly. And also I was writing to my MIDI/Keyboard skills. I am much more creative now.

 

[Bollen]

For me the last 20 years have been a roller coaster! I started professionally in the mid to late 90s mostly as an arranger. A Big Band arrangement used to take me about three months, mostly just making the parts!

Then in 2005 I was introduced to Finale and I loved how it cut my work time from a couple of months to a couple of hours (producing the parts that is...). I still composed/wrote by hand. A year later someone introduced me to Sibelius and I found it much easier to write in so I moved, although I still wrote the core of the work (main score) by hand.

Around 2007 I got my first film commission, to my surprise the director wanted not the charts but the actual music! . The budget was nowhere near enough for me to hire an orchestra, but it was more than enough for me to buy a PC, a DAW and every library I needed for the project. At this point I started to write exclusively on Sibelius and then dump the MIDI on to Cubase for mixing, mastering and polishing playback. However, I continued to write my more "creative" works by hand, at least the sketches.

In 2015 I was introduce to Staffpad, I loved it straight away because importing the XML in Sibelius was much faster than copying (my terrible handwriting) into Sibelius manually. So now the workflow was Staffpad (sketch) > Sibelius (parts and sync) > Cubase (mockup & production).

Finally last year, after playing around with Dorico for over a year, I made the transition. And now I do 90% of my work there. No more DAWs, no more paper, no more file transfer... I'm a happy camper ! I only ever use Staffpad when I'm away or travelling and since the lockdown, not once...

What a couple of decades!