Why does the Sax get left out of Brass libraries?
- Thread starter Robert_G
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Peaslee
Active Member
We recorded a 6-piece tenor sax ensemble and solo tenor saxophone for the Symphony Series Woodwinds. We covered the full range of articulations and is designed to mesh perfectly with the other sections in the ensemble. We had originally considered putting the sax with the brass, but went the more traditional route. You can get just the ensemble or solo libraries, or a bundle of both, or the entire Symphony Series bundle. Definitely check it out if that's what you're looking for.
www.native-instruments.com
SYMPHONY SERIES – WOODWIND
A 36-piece woodwind section and top soloists, recorded within the unique acoustic environment of Montclair Presbyterian Church, Oakland. The portfolio unites classic woodwind instruments with contemporary saxophone, offering vivid dynamic recordings for traditional and modern scoring.
www.native-instruments.com
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Robert_G
The End is Near
Surely it's a brasswind?
Not an arguement im getting into lol. Ive seen some heated back and forth on the subject and i dont care either way. Wind or brass? My issue is that many full orchestra libs dont include it in their package either
Markus Kohlprath
Senior Member
I don’t know why but real orchestras don’t include a saxophone section. So why should orchestral libraries include them?
I think it could be a source for fresh still unexplored sounds in orchestral music.
I think it could be a source for fresh still unexplored sounds in orchestral music.
Ashermusic
Senior Member
Traditionally the Sax is considered a reed instrument, not a brass instrument. And most good sax players double on clarinet and many also on flute, which argues for it being a woodwind.
Living Fossil
Senior Member
My (somehow surprising) observation so far is that although rather few orchestral pieces use saxophones, this instrument tends to sound always quite the same in the orchestra. It adds less than one could expect. I'm not sure however why this is so.
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Robert_G
The End is Near
We recorded a 6-piece tenor sax ensemble and solo tenor saxophone for the Symphony Series Woodwinds. We covered the full range of articulations and is designed to mesh perfectly with the other sections in the ensemble. We had originally considered putting the sax with the brass, but went the more traditional route. You can get just the ensemble or solo libraries, or a bundle of both, or the entire Symphony Series bundle. Definitely check it out if that's what you're looking for.
SYMPHONY SERIES – WOODWIND
A 36-piece woodwind section and top soloists, recorded within the unique acoustic environment of Montclair Presbyterian Church, Oakland. The portfolio unites classic woodwind instruments with contemporary saxophone, offering vivid dynamic recordings for traditional and modern scoring.
I have the NI Symphony Essentials in my Komplete Ultimate package, so I have tried it. I have a difficult time getting it dry enough to use an independent reverb, but I'm open to suggestions on how to get around that.
ProfoundSilence
Senior Member
I wish it was included in WW libraries, but frankly it's a bit out of place to modern ears.
infinite woodwinds has then though
infinite woodwinds has then though
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Robert_G
The End is Near
I do tend to agree with this. I would never use a sax in a wide open symphony piece, but here and there as a solo in some quiet pieces is something I'd like to challenge myself with.
d.healey
This is a custom title
A sax is basically the same as a clarinet, just a different shape - although you can get straight saxes and curved clarinets.
I've seen trumpets made out of plastic, does that mean they are not brass instruments... the material the instrument is made out of has almost no relation to it's categorization.
I've seen trumpets made out of plastic, does that mean they are not brass instruments... the material the instrument is made out of has almost no relation to it's categorization.
Lionel Schmitt
Senior Member
Doesn't fit in most contexts where brass is used, thus would just make the library more expensive without adding value for most users - ain't sounding like a good deal.
How often are saxes incorporated in arrangements with brass? Very rarely... especially not in an orchestral context. Putting it together in a library thus seems odd.
Would be like including a deep sampled sampled piano in every percussion library... just separate things to look for and different usages.
How often are saxes incorporated in arrangements with brass? Very rarely... especially not in an orchestral context. Putting it together in a library thus seems odd.
Would be like including a deep sampled sampled piano in every percussion library... just separate things to look for and different usages.
Markus Kohlprath
Senior Member
This is really interesting and not far from what I thought might be a reason for the instrument being neglected so shamelessly. Especially as a choir its a whole additional quality of sound. Similar to the organ but more expressive. I recently heard in the radio the arcis saxophone quartet playing a bach suite. Absolutely phenomenal.
I’m sure this could contribute to the orchestral colors quite a bit.
Sears Poncho
Senior Member
The payroll dept agrees with you.
And symphonies do hire saxes when needed i.e. Lt Kije, Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances, Bolero, Pictures, Suites by Gershwin/Ellington etc., pops gigs.As an orchestrator, I can't even get doubling approval. Doubling costs extra $$, I can't really blame them. But sometimes it's silly. I wanted an English horn on one chart- nope. Symphonies really nickel and dime it.
JohnG
Senior Member
I'm using three saxophones in a cue right now, for exactly that reason (new timbre).
I think part of the reason saxophones don't excite people in orchestras is that they are played too cautiously, often with a "concert" mouthpiece that tames the sound down so it sounds like a blend between maybe French Horn and clarinet. By contrast with the blazing, honking, take-another-shot-and-dance-on-the-table thing that it can be.
I think two reasons drive this result. First, the glares of the other players generally quell any but the boldest to play "politely" (certainly did me). Second, saxes often are played by a doubler whose main instrument (and gigs) are as a clarinet player, with its tighter embouchure and tamer dynamics. We have tons of people in Los Angeles who can play both very well, but that is not true in other cities.
(And yes, I know the clarinet can be kind of a badass but not as much as a saxophone.)
I think part of the reason saxophones don't excite people in orchestras is that they are played too cautiously, often with a "concert" mouthpiece that tames the sound down so it sounds like a blend between maybe French Horn and clarinet. By contrast with the blazing, honking, take-another-shot-and-dance-on-the-table thing that it can be.
I think two reasons drive this result. First, the glares of the other players generally quell any but the boldest to play "politely" (certainly did me). Second, saxes often are played by a doubler whose main instrument (and gigs) are as a clarinet player, with its tighter embouchure and tamer dynamics. We have tons of people in Los Angeles who can play both very well, but that is not true in other cities.
(And yes, I know the clarinet can be kind of a badass but not as much as a saxophone.)
