Ashermusic
Senior Member
Will this be in your upcoming book?
Certainly, but briefly, as it is a beginner’s book.
Will this be in your upcoming book?
Well I think most people just dont really dig deep enough into their tools (?). You really can get very close - maybe not 100% but IMO 90-95% - to the real thing. I also played violin for many years myself on a decent level and have to say that I was (and stil am) quite impressed how realistic sampled (solo-)strings can sound.
I did that track within about 2 hours playing and testing the Josh Bell Violin in a short demo track which was taken as official demo by embertone back then.
This isn´t even ultra-deeply edited / programmed and could probably stil be done more believable and accurate. It was just performed on the keyboard and improved with some articulations using keyswitches. No external effects or anything - just the sound out of the box. I personally think that the transition at 1:02 might sound a little bit unnatural (maybe I should stil fix that) but that was my fault editing not 100% correctly. I am a huge fan of this library (and no - I wasn´t paid for the track and yes I purchased the library for the full price ) and do think it sounds quite realistic. That is why I am curious to know and understand what doesn´t sound right so I could probably try to fix that aspect. Sure a virtual instrument will never get totally on par with a real performer (not just strings. It is the same thing with any instrument you could think of). But I believe these tools already do the job quite well. Which moments do sound synthetic to you? Do you think the samples / recordings per se are sounding not realistic and are the problem?
Or here another example:
Like I said - even it might be not 100% realistic: does it really sound THAT fake to your ears that you would say there is a massive problem compared to the real thing? IMO the technology and degree of realism especially of this library (and probably some others out there) is stunning and satisfying?
Thanks @Polkasound and @dflood, for the explanation. I think we'll just have to do better scripting, mixing and other stuff that makes it sound more like real violins, without ever reaching 100 % authentic sound.
"Sound" is one thing, the other thing often overlooked is "performance", which I think is a more important factor. You could have a very capable VST with all the scripting and articulations, but the result is still unrealistic if the person using it can't articulate it properly and who doesn't understand all the nuances that really makes the violin sound the way it does. It takes a lifetime of practice and skill to play the real thing, and the performance is really intertwined with the player's physique; every player sounds different even playing the same violin. Someone playing on a keyboard with the mod wheel really can never quite get there even if the "sound" is the same.
I learned to play the real thing for 7 years when I was young and never touched it again after I was done. I hated handling and playing the damn thing. But I absolutely love to listen it sing on the hands of a capable and talented musician.
[/
It is a very demanding instrument, and also addictive. I studied and worked at it a lot as an adult, performed in rock and jazz settings for a few years. Then one day my spinal stenosis gave me a pinched nerve in the neck, which gave me numbness and pain in my left hand, making it impossible to play for any length of time. So I'm very grateful that the virtual instruments have improved to the extent that they have."Sound" is one thing, the other thing often overlooked is "performance", which I think is a more important factor. You could have a very capable VST with all the scripting and articulations, but the result is still unrealistic if the person using it can't articulate it properly and who doesn't understand all the nuances that really makes the violin sound the way it does. It takes a lifetime of practice and skill to play the real thing, and the performance is really intertwined with the player's physique; every player sounds different even playing the same violin. Someone playing on a keyboard with the mod wheel really can never quite get there even if the "sound" is the same.
I learned to play the real thing for 7 years when I was young and never touched it again after I was done. I hated handling and playing the damn thing. But I absolutely love to listen it sing on the hands of a capable and talented musician.
ditto, but no hatersIf anyone has had any experience with the UVI IRCAM Solo Instruments, please let me know. It looks intriguing.
UVI IRCAM Solo Instruments 2 - Avant-Garde Solo Instrument Collection
16 instruments, 550+ playing techniques, experience unparalleled depth and detail with classical and avant-garde articulations recorded at IRCAM Labswww.uvi.net
Why can't they do well with strings then?
Because it's incredibly difficult, I'm afraid impossible.Why can't they do well with strings then?
I’ve had it for about five years, thinking I would use it for the more “outre” sounds—multiphonics, scratchy strings and the like. So far I haven’t really used it much. It takes time to blend the UVI instrument to the to the sound of main Solo instrument track (usually an Embertone, Chris Hein, VSL, etc.). But the sound is good, not too “special” color, ambience, and such. At this point I’ve done this enough that it’s usually worth the trouble. The price is fair, and the UVI player is staightforward, though you have to do the setting up and each instance only has four slots. I would never buy this for a workhorse library and it’s not for composers who love that EPIC SOUND; but if you are even a LITTLE adventurous (that’s me!) it’s maybe a great resource. I’ve tried to mock up flute multiphonics and it takes all day and still sucks the big one.If anyone has had any experience with the UVI IRCAM Solo Instruments, please let me know. It looks intriguing.
UVI IRCAM Solo Instruments 2 - Avant-Garde Solo Instrument Collection
16 instruments, 550+ playing techniques, experience unparalleled depth and detail with classical and avant-garde articulations recorded at IRCAM Labswww.uvi.net
Would love to hear from you all how this specs up to others you may have used. I hope they come out with a Cello version. I would buy it the day it came out.
A note regarding the Chris Hein violin. To my ears, it sounds kinda like the violin is in a tunnel. It's entirely likely that it's just me...Chris Hein is the best I've ever owned. It can take tweaking/warming up, but I like to think it sounds really good.
Of course, I'm not as much of a stickler for realism. I saw how dumb pretending vis were authentic a long while back (dumb only imo, more power to anyone going for that).
Some would argue that achieving intense expressivity in practically any orchestral instrument is a fool's game because the context of the performance has been taken away. Players, especially those who really like your piece (though true pros are consistently more than competent as a necessary rule) will play your music miles better than the folks hired to record a bunch of orchestral samples. That's why, ultimately, if you truly want your music to be played the way you're hearing it you should aim, financially, mentally...holistically, to have it played by live (or recording) players.
We can fool our families and friends (I should say casual music listeners). But imo virtual composers should accept that they're writing for an objective instrument (or set of) whose player(s) were in a context that had nothing to do with your composition.
I think that might be why vis are getting so popular in the area of music-with-radically-attenuated-dynamics. There's a limited range in music like action trailers (not just), dubstep (or should I say Rock and Pop in general, though I happen to love a lot of the latter two), and other genres that vis can represent perfectly. It's when you're looking for something in the order of the first movement of Mahler's 9th that we are, and looks like will continue to be, fucked. For fun/frustration, try it. Even harder: try Beethoven's opus 132, third movement. There's just too much nuance there, a significant portion of which of which is created via the live performance of said piece. It might be the greatest day in virtual instruments if someone can pull off such a mockup...I personally won't lose sleep waiting for it, folks.
Imo just write, write, write, with a big side order of studying up on both music and your vis. Perhaps not worry so much about power legato and how x sounds like shit whenever I do x. I really believe consistent, religious composing will make you better regardless. It pays off so much, at least it has for me.
Just get things to sound the best they can be, and let me tell you if the day comes when your writing is performed by instrumentalists you will be so happy (I was, still am).
Hokay, well that was kind of on topic lol! Sorry for my Wagnerian longwindedness.
Which one?A note regarding the Chris Hein violin. To my ears, it sounds kinda like the violin is in a tunnel. It's entirely likely that it's just me...
It was the very first Chris Hein solo violin. I notice it the most when comparing to other solo violin virtual instruments.Which one?