When will vibrato be highly controllable?
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d.healey
This is a custom title
If the vibrato is recorded in the samples the most that you can do (without some kind of weird time stretching) is fade it in and fade it out. If the vibrato is created artificially through modelling (usually using LFOs) then you can control the amount, speed, and the effect it has on timbre, volume, and pitch. So it depends on the approach used in a particular library.
pmcrockett
Senior Member
The Audio Modeling strings are a good example of some of the pitfalls of more complicated vibrato modeling. The instruments take two parameters -- rate and depth -- instead of just one. But a lot of people who play the instruments in realtime don't even use the vibrato controls and prefer to fake vibrato by combining pitch bend and expression. This is because it's difficult to map the actual vibrato parameters to a physical controller in a way that gives you a 1:1 correspondence with actual performed vibrato, whereas it's fairly easy to get acceptable 1:1 results by performing pitch bends/expression.
The problem, of course, with capturing vibrato by combining pitch bend and expression is that you're contaminating two parameters that also have to be used for other purposes, which makes editing the performance after the fact extremely difficult.
I've successfully used custom scripting to map repeated key strikes on a sustained note to vibrato rate and depth which allows me to capture 1:1 performed vibrato using the actual vibrato parameters, but it's kind of an ordeal to set up. I think the ideal situation would be for instruments to have the built-in capability of extracting accurate rate/depth data from a sine wave on a single parameter (totally possible; I've scripted it before), which would let you easily perform 1:1 vibrato on a single CC parameter with a physical controller.
The problem, of course, with capturing vibrato by combining pitch bend and expression is that you're contaminating two parameters that also have to be used for other purposes, which makes editing the performance after the fact extremely difficult.
I've successfully used custom scripting to map repeated key strikes on a sustained note to vibrato rate and depth which allows me to capture 1:1 performed vibrato using the actual vibrato parameters, but it's kind of an ordeal to set up. I think the ideal situation would be for instruments to have the built-in capability of extracting accurate rate/depth data from a sine wave on a single parameter (totally possible; I've scripted it before), which would let you easily perform 1:1 vibrato on a single CC parameter with a physical controller.
ReelToLogic
Still have my reel-to-reel
As d.healey said, there are two types. Check out the Embertone solo string libraries like Blakus or Friedlander for a good example of modelled vibrato where you can continuously vary the speed and amount, and can select from a variety of vibrato types. For a simulated vibrato it is very well implimented. Many other libraries have this capability too.
micrologus
Active Member
This app for iPad is really incredible:
I like music
Senior Member
Hah, wasn't expecting to be impressed. Was wrong. Shame I don't have an iPad, or any-pad, but the fact that you can now do this on a tablet, is a sign of crazy good times, for musicians.
FinGael
I Re Member
When I read this, I was thinking about a library with keyswitches, that instead of usual various articulations trigger different types and levels of vibrato, that you can crossfade with modwheel (modwheel down = no vibrato -sample, modwheel up = plays a sample with the vibrato type/depth/intensity that has been selected through keyswitching).
Does such a library exist? Is it possible to make such a thing (playable)?
Does such a library exist? Is it possible to make such a thing (playable)?
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Berlin's Capsule engine lets you crossfade between articulations with a CC. The strings have a few different types of sampled vibrato for the longs. Not sure about the other instruments.
Of course, you could theoretically do that with any instrument with different recorded vibrato types just poking around under the hood in Kontakt.
Though perhaps I misunderstand what you mean.
coffeecomposer
New Member
Shredoverdrive
Phantom limb
Chris Hein's libraries allow this on CC1 by défaut.
DSmolken
Senior Member
It's not that hard for solo instruments if you want to use 5-6 parameters. It's hard to get the number of parameters down to something playable.
I need to get around to documenting how I emulate solo instrument vibrato with some specifics for sax (vibrato mostly goes below the main pitch, diaphragm vibrato on quiet notes means very prominent breath noise when the note volume dips etc.) and guitar (trem bridges bend different strings by different amounts, making chords all wobbly, string bends can only go up while some bridges only go down).
The one thing that I'd really like to model is ensemble vibrato - how the members kind of follow each other but aren't perfectly in sync, when it comes to both phase and depth. Not there yet, but if you ever assemble a section one member at a time, such as via transposition trick, this becomes essential. Spot-miking everyone in a violin section playing something cheesy, and analyzing them individually.
I need to get around to documenting how I emulate solo instrument vibrato with some specifics for sax (vibrato mostly goes below the main pitch, diaphragm vibrato on quiet notes means very prominent breath noise when the note volume dips etc.) and guitar (trem bridges bend different strings by different amounts, making chords all wobbly, string bends can only go up while some bridges only go down).
The one thing that I'd really like to model is ensemble vibrato - how the members kind of follow each other but aren't perfectly in sync, when it comes to both phase and depth. Not there yet, but if you ever assemble a section one member at a time, such as via transposition trick, this becomes essential. Spot-miking everyone in a violin section playing something cheesy, and analyzing them individually.
Rasmus Hartvig
Senior Member
Interesting ideas!
What do you use for analyzing the audio? I've been on the lookout for something that can extract pitch-data and export it to midi or some numerical format. Still haven't found anything, so I'm building a Reaktor ensemble that can do something like this, but it's not ideal.
Rasmus Hartvig
Senior Member
Great - thanks! I even have Vielklang lying around and kinda forgot about it - but it doesn't seem like it can export the pitch data, just midi notes. Or have you found a clever way?
X-Bassist
Senior Member
Melodyne will extract pitch from any audio and send out midi info. Works as a plugin for any daw.
You do need to have Melodyne assistant, editor, or studio.
(broken link removed)
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Rasmus Hartvig
Senior Member
Melodyne will extract pitch from any audio and send out midi info. Works as a plugin for any daw.
Thanks for the suggestion! I also have Melodyne, and you're right - only problem is that it only sends out midi notes - not PB data. For sample analysis I know what each note is, but I would really like to get my hands on the pitch variation data.
X-Bassist
Senior Member
That’s interesting, because it does have vibrato information and the ability to add or subtract vibrato (I’ve used it a few times, works great), just no midi output of that info. Perhaps in an update...
