What is WAVES up to?

Discussion in 'Your DAW (Digital Audio Workstation)' started by gsilbers, Oct 7, 2017.

  1. Sunny Fable

    Sunny Fable Senior Member

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    I only had to update once with WUP for 15$ to get from Element to Element 2.0, then I got a voucher of equal value to use to buy something else. No problem for me.

    Waves Central, on the other hand, is a mess. Some installs took a long time to update plugins.
     
    solomon.kim likes this.
  2. mgpqa1

    mgpqa1 Senior Member

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    This just happened to me the other day. I was on v9 and planning to stay there, but next thing I knew my Waves Central was at v10... I must've absent-mindedly clicked the word "update" somewhere thinking only the Waves Central software itself was being updated.

    Big mistake.

    My v9 licenses were still sitting in my license cloud, yet to be activated. Because my Waves Central installation was now at v10, it couldn't see/detect/activate/install my v9 lincenses in the cloud until they were updated to v10. o_O
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
    gsilbers likes this.
  3. scoble08

    scoble08 Member

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  4. scoble08

    scoble08 Member

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    I’m also dead in the water since the “update!”
    This vid below may help some. Didn’t help me but maybe will help someone.
    I’m using Studio One 4, Win 10 x64.

    Gonna request Waves support provide me with a way to completely remove all Waves products from my System! Reg entries, everything.
    Never had a problem in all the many years I’ve used their products until this fiasco!

     
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  5. OP
    OP
    gsilbers

    gsilbers Part of Pulsesetter-Sounds.com


    i think i might skipped a few steps. in business and marketing they teach us whats called psicological pricing. so luxury brands do this of jacking up the price so we percieve the prodcut better. Also the .99 cents instead of 1.00 and a few other "tricks"
    here is an example with wines. I only remember cuz of her last name ;)


    Since i studied business and marketing i do see this sort of things everywhere.

    now, cheap is not necesarly bad. and btw - I do think waves plugins are very good. and have compared them to UAD and plugins alliance and all of them are outstanding tools. so my comments are more about marketing only.

    so cheap is a bad side effect of affordable. which has to do with bang for your buck. so its a fine line when a company does affordable products and reducing price tags when pricing their prodcuts. go too far and the competition has a feast by just saying how cheap and bad those products are. OR consumers just think its "cheap" when comparing. and they see a few posts here and there about them being not as good as UAD and there we go... waves is percieved as cheap and lower quality when in fact its a perception of the individual user.

    in your examples, yes east west is very good, they probably paid off their investment on their hollywood series so they can reduce the price, but suddenly spitfire came out on the oposite end by pricing their similar prodcut much higher and all of the suddenly everyone is all the place saying how good spitfire is and their quality etc. i know Play is relevant to this discussion but I have both, and both are equally good imo in terms of tools to get you do quality orchestral work. but there we have some sour posts by doughs EW about spitfire and how everyone just drool over their stuff just cuz its spitfire name brand etc etc. but at the end is how consumers percive the prodcut. there is a luxury feel on SF while EW didnt promote too much that. EW went onto reducing the price more and more to get more sales while SP only does it in xmas. Ive gone to cello studios and omg , ew could of done soooo much better to promote their hollywood series as luxury orchestra. they also have thomas bergesen ,everyone loves that guy, yet they relied on lower pricing as a marekting strategy so of course spitfire is percieved as much better... when in fact.. again, both are good and the quality is how the user percieves it.

    Also for your gibson example, the brand was always strong and luxury high end... their problem also has to do with bad invesntments on other business. but in terms of marketing, they came out with the epiphone line and when i go to guitar center i feel i see no difference between a real gibsons and a epiphone or enough to justify the extra grand or two. and also, well, guitar music went down since the last decade or so.
    But gibsons pricing strategy was always about luxury so they priced their les paul very high. and shot themselves in the foot with epiphones being almost as good and well.. getting into odd businesses in japan etc.


    so waves is dangling in the affordable vs cheap. and several posts in facebok groups where poeple comment about uad ssl and plugin alliance is way better than waves ssl... im open minded so i downloaded the demo for all of them, compared same settings.. by dialing in and also by ear and realize the compressors where the same. i did my double blind test comparing them without knowing which is which and i coudnt tell any of them to be "better". some minor differences but not enough to say waves sucks or uad is better. but there i keep seeing poeple saying waves is not as good. poeple keep seeing the low price and assume its cheaper instead of affordable. again, all perception.

    As someone who has a business degree, i can forsee waves shoooting theimselves in the foot if they don't come up with something new that would get users to buy their prodcuts. And at the same time bringing down the competition and amount of developers as more and more new companies would rather not pay up for large development to start up a company, software and marketing to later see how everyone expects a plugin to cost 29.99 when it wont make up for the investment. and at the same time no one buying waves as everyone already has their prodcuts or compete with subscirpiton based developers like slate who is also reducing prices mre and more... so ita a race to the bottom i dont see anyone winning on the long run. cool for now though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
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  6. OP
    OP
    gsilbers

    gsilbers Part of Pulsesetter-Sounds.com

    maybe that was their plan all along... complicated installation so you need support... which mean paying for the wup :)
    Evil :)
     
  7. storyteller

    storyteller Senior Member

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    I agree very much with what was said above by @gsilbers. But I also think Waves is in a unique position among the other players in the market. They were one of the "first companies in" during the rise of digital recording. Algorithms are algorithms (regardless of age) and they mastered that aspect of their business. So now, many years later... after high prices and weathering the storm of competitors, they stand as the defacto standard among mixing engineers. Sure there are other non-Waves plugins that would be considered "standard" in the mixing toolbox, but almost everyone in the audio world uses something Waves has created (for good reason!) unless there is a philosophical opposition to the company. Again, it wouldn't be a decision about quality. Waves plugins are known to be top-tier among those in the audio world for just reason.

    So this allows Waves to slide prices down into "no-brainer" and "impulse buy" territory while (radically) increasing market share. We all have them. We all have bought the ones at $29 that were not financially justifiable at $199 (or higher!). So the train continues. More people buy them. Even budding artists use them now as opposed to 10 years ago when they were once considered financially inaccessible to non-professionals. This means waves plugins will be on songs for ages to come. At some point, you will probably have to WUP or maybe realize you want a second license. But those are optional. And additional licenses at $29 a pop are very reasonable. Most competitors offer multiple installations per purchase (so that is also a difference).

    Anyway... While I do think their marketing approach will have to shift at some point, I think everyone should enjoy the ride while we are on it. They are doing something right with their marketing otherwise these discussions wouldn't be happening. Humanity has become so conditioned by underlying agenda and motives that sometimes - when good things happen - it becomes a hard concept to accept. Anyway... those are just my thoughts on it. :thumbsup:
     
  8. OP
    OP
    gsilbers

    gsilbers Part of Pulsesetter-Sounds.com


    i think you are on point. Although it goes into a more philosophical territory, similar to retail apocalypse, automation of jobs and cheap prodcuts from china. there are two sides to each and long run consequences. some poeple loosing jobs, others buying stuff for cheap and so on.
    And of course nowadays so many composers would lower their rates for any work or even do it for free.
    and all int he same boat go under at the same time. just because the oversupply of composers and the long term consequences of noone really have a need to pay for music.
     
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  9. Zoot_Rollo

    Zoot_Rollo Throbbing Member

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    after reinstalling all my plugins on my new PC - my Waves 9/10 experience was less than delightful (no wup).

    i won't be buying anymore Waves plugins.
     
  10. bap_la_so_1

    bap_la_so_1 Prince of All Evil

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    The biggest problem with Waves for me is their messed up Waves Central
    They should look up to Plugin Alliance's...
     
  11. gtrwll

    gtrwll Senior Member

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    No problems here so far, I installed a demo of CLA-2A the other day, and it clearly states that the ones installed from Waves Central are V10 and if I choose to update the older plugins (which I chose not to) I'd need to have a valid license (WUP) to run V10.

    I also checked the price for WUP and it was quite steep for Gold ($90 or so) but for my other individual plugins from 5 to 15 dollars. I somehow expected more.
     
  12. jcrosby

    jcrosby Senior Member

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    Boston MA
    I completely disagree. This is a tactic of desperation. Software competition has never been higher and Waves is desperate to stay relevant while companies like UAD, Softube, Acustica, Plugin Alliance etc disrupt their userbase; (while th
    ey shaft the same users they pretend to be interested in staying relevant to.)

    This isn't the first time they've done some weird, (if not shiesty) isht like this either. If anything this is a way to become even less relevant by failing to accept that forcing update fees on loyal users is going to alienate a decent portion of them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
  13. storyteller

    storyteller Senior Member

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    Possibly. It is really difficult to say and you do always offer a solid perspective (which I’ve always respected). I’m not sure how they are shafting users aside from the v8 (I think?) debacle though? I might have missed some of the waves drama though. But they’ve seemed to learn from that one. It is my opinion that they likely don’t focus on communication regarding WUP to potentially increase revenue from confused patrons. That’s not very forthcoming or classy, but their website does make it clear regarding WUP not being mandatory, so it isn’t like the information isn’t available. But speaking of revenue, I tend to think when we are talking about the volume of revenue they see vs the small number of professionals in the industry that it becomes more a game of saturation to keep the money coming in rather than desperation. Maybe that’s where we might be differing on perspectives here. UAD is both hardware locked and maintains a high barrier of entry. Great stuff for sure, but I’d bet their software revenue is very small in comparison. I’d also wager softube, acoustica, and plugin alliance are in the same significantly lower revenue boat. Even PA has moved to $29 sales and softube to $49 sales even though they are more rare to see.
     

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