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What is WAVES up to?

Discussion in 'Your DAW (Digital Audio Workstation)' started by gsilbers, Oct 7, 2017.

  1. gsilbers

    gsilbers Part of Pulsesetter-Sounds.com

    They have been almost giving away their plugins and keep saying original price around $178 but you can now have it at $29. For YEARS.

    Is the WUP the end game? they know for some OS upgrade we will all have to pay up a lot more to make them compatible?

    I dont see a lot of talk about this and yet i find it odd they're prices are so low compared to other developers.
    sostenuto likes this.
  2. sostenuto

    sostenuto Senior Member

    Mar 10, 2017
    St George, UT USA
    Share your uncertainties .... Reputable company and few libs purchased are cool.
    Surely there is 'end game' and WUP must be involved.

    Very recently made major 'head-change' and signed up for Composer Cloud. Put aside irrational bias, and just looked at personal needs versus cost & alternatives. Quite pleased so far.
    If Waves final WUP option is 'reasonable', guess it could be decent option ?? :barefoot:
  3. OP

    gsilbers Part of Pulsesetter-Sounds.com

    i guess its a different ways for big developers ot keep a revenue stream. i mean, updating the plugins every time there is a OS change must be a pita. i do hate how adobe has it. its not easy at all to quit the adobe cloud thing. very sneaky and they dont want you to buy the software out right. that company is on my top 10 of shady.

    as for waves. i think there is a limit on what you pay for wup. i think its $300 but if everyone who bought waves has to pay around that price for all their plugins they bought at $30. it adds up. lets say its 30k poeple bought more than 15 plugins at $30. so the wup is about $300 then waves gets like $9 million. so im guessing their end game is for people to reach maximun wup.
  4. Gerhard Westphalen

    Gerhard Westphalen Scoring Mixer

    I think they have so many plugins that they're able to sell them for dirt cheap and still survive. I think Slate is really taking over their customers so I'm not sure what they're planning now.

    Personally I haven't found any of their newest plugins to be anything I want so I don't even look into them anymore.
  5. kitekrazy

    kitekrazy Senior Member

    Dec 23, 2008
    There's just a lot more competition.
    synthpunk likes this.
  6. sostenuto

    sostenuto Senior Member

    Mar 10, 2017
    St George, UT USA
    For sure !! Plugin Alliance gets me often with darn decent stuff at similar 'promo' costs.
    Supply / Demand Curve still working ..... ;)
  7. rrichard63

    rrichard63 Perpetual Novice

    Nov 17, 2013
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Waves is facing increasing competition from smaller developers -- including some one-person shops putting out really good plugins at reasonable prices. Several years ago, Waves could more or less dictate the pricing structure in this marketplace. Now they can't.

    In addition, they have recovered the development cost of many of their older products. Lowering prices is the obvious way to sell more copies once many customers already have the ones they want.

    Some other developers are adopting related pricing strategies (except for the WUP part), for example Plugin Alliance and Eventide. And some are aggressively promoting a subscription model, for example Slate.

    Subscription models (WUP is a partial example) solve the cash flow problem for developers but create problems for many customers. But -- similar to the situation with download and authorization managers discussed in several Kontakt/Native Access threads -- there might not be much customers can do.
  8. wst3

    wst3 my office these days

    Apr 2, 2010
    Pottstown, PA
    I'm a fan of any product that helps me get work done more quickly, extra points for a better result... or is it the other way around?

    I do not mind subscription plans, if they are done fairly. So far the only one I've taken advantage of is Sonar - and the reason I think it is reasonable is that I can drop out and keep the product at the level where I dropped out. Composer cloud, if I understand correctly, actually removes access to the libraries if you exit the plan. Same goes for Slate.

    WUP? My use of Waves goes back to Native Power Packs I & II, which required parallel port dongles, so I'm accustomed to their support model. I think - overall - it is fair. I don't need WUP until there is an update that I want. Then I am on the hook, max cost is $300 except for a couple times a year when it is reduced to $225.

    I like UAD, Plugin-Alliance, Waves, PSP, Voxengo, SoundToys, and Zynaptiq - which is still far too many plugins really, but they each offer certain features that I like, so for now I'm sticking with them. I used to think it would be cool to own all of those, but these days I'm kind of grateful that I can't afford that!

    Talk about a tangent!

    Waves - I try really hard not to judge other folks business plans - I'm not in their shoes, can't hope to understand. I think Waves and UAD probably top the list in terms of R&D investments. I think Waves has probably recouped most of their investment, UAD is probably still recouping. Further, if you are a serious music/audio pro you probably already own at least some of their plugins. Add too that the increase in competition and you have a much smaller pool of prospects.

    Interestingly, I've yet to run across anyone that invested in Waves back in the 1990s that has anything negative to say about the current pricing model. I've long since recouped my investment, and just recently took advantage of the anniversary sale to upgrade from Gold to Diamond. It was slightly less expensive than grabbing the handful of plugins I wanted to add separately, even at sale pricing. Someone did their homework!

    So I think they are trying to stay relevant, and competitive.

    Relevant - they are providing "one button" solutions, which is what a beginner really wants. If I ruled the world I'd probably make them even more complex, but that's me.
    Competitive - can't argue that the constant sales cycle makes it pretty easy to get some very good tools for not a lot of money.

    I hope the strategy works!
  9. premjj

    premjj Senior Member

    Mar 1, 2017
    That's the problem with figuring out an effective pricing model without affecting the customer's perception about the quality of your products.

    Keep it high and it stands to gain from the premium positioning. But then very few people can afford it.

    Drop the price really low and the customer suspects the product's true cost/quality.

    If I did not have first hand experience, or a few good reviews, about how a product performs, chances are I will judge it basis how premium the pricing is.
  10. jacobthestupendous

    jacobthestupendous not that stupendous

    May 27, 2015
    They had Diamond on sale for $249 through their website at the Anniversary sale (and it was cheaper through some other channels). WUP must be part of the their future plans, because that's insane.
  11. Jimmy Hellfire

    Jimmy Hellfire Senior Member

    Jun 28, 2015
    I have a whole bunch of great Waves plug-ins that I use on every project. I purchased most of them for the ridiculous discount price of 29 bucks. If you look at it that way, I already got ridiculously much out of it.

    I never had to update the plug-ins once in the last 3 years. Eventually when it's time to WUP at some point down the road, it's capped to 300 bucks for several more years of tons of high quality plug-in use. To me, that's more than fair. Some people dish out that kind of money for a single compressor and a reverb.
  12. OP

    gsilbers Part of Pulsesetter-Sounds.com

    oh man i missed that one. i have most of them but it would be useful to have them also in the slave pc. that crazy cheap.
  13. OP

    gsilbers Part of Pulsesetter-Sounds.com

    yes, i think that is backfiring. some engineers i talk to that are not too much into all the newest and coolest or follow forums , mentioned that they like more uad and that it sound better to them and that waves now its sucking. well, not that strong of words.

    i think this started when they hired a new main person/ceo. that they did this crazy discounts.

    i don't think its a competition thing to the bottom because that would mean they would try other things similar to UAD and waves has a lot more clout than slate. and waves could of done the subscription thing as well. they have their own licenser and means to easily do it.

    imo, i think they are banking in everyone buying it for cheap, using it in all their projects and having customers be so knee deep with their plugins that in the future they will have to do the wup if they want to use any old project or future ones with the plugins. and thats besides all the future OS upgrades at $300. with cheaper plugins upfront they forgo the subscription thing and bank on the WUP at $300. more cheap plugins means an easier $300 in the future from each and everyone of us.

    don't get me wrong, i still see it as a very good price even after paying $300 WUP for almost of of them.
    but its just kind of weird how nowadays all pricing models are skewed and nothing is really free. (free=u are the product)

    at $29 per plugins with so many pluginn and then the wup, I'm guessing they will get a chunk of change and they already figured the math will work for them.
    premjj likes this.
  14. premjj

    premjj Senior Member

    Mar 1, 2017
    I sense version 10 round the corner.

    By offering their plugins at almost up to 90% discounts through multiple and extended sales, as in the last few months, I think they are building up a high user base, kinda like a captive audience which they have a better chance of influencing when the next version is released.

    Smart tactics considering the low attention span today's customer has because of the information overload coupled with them being spoilt for choices.

    And I guess these sales also pull in the fence sitters which otherwise would not have taken the plunge. For e.g. buying the Diamond Bundle at $249 vs buying it at $2,999 !!

    (@gsilbers : I missed seeing that one too. Don't think they sent a mailer on that one)
    gsilbers likes this.
  15. storyteller

    storyteller Senior Member

    Dec 26, 2015
    This... if I were guessing. Also, their 25th Anniversary UI updates on a handful of their original plugins hint at a possible UI overhaul on the plugins that now look a bit dated. But I'm not too worried about it. I don't think the current plugin standard is going anywhere anytime soon. And, even so, $300 is a great deal if that does come about. It just seems to be a win-win for everyone involved on both sides of their big sales. I like win-wins. :)
    gsilbers likes this.
  16. OP

    gsilbers Part of Pulsesetter-Sounds.com

    yeah i saw some of those GUI updates, they look interesting. if they added some new enhancements it would be cool. or mixing up the plugins like the old R-compressor have harmonic distortion paramter and so on.

    im sure its not cheap doing all of these but i guess its like netflix which is about more users paying recurrent smaller amounts than big cable bill.
    storyteller likes this.

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