What is a 'purged template'?

Discussion in 'Workflow Tips & DIYs' started by Jonik, Mar 13, 2019 at 8:39 AM.

  1. Jonik

    Jonik Member

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    May 5, 2011
    Hi all,

    In researching how to get my kontakt based Logic templates to load faster I came across this very helpful thread about whether or not M2 drives would be faster than the Crucial SSDs I currently use in a blackmagic multidock.

    https://vi-control.net/community/threads/nvme-vs-sata-will-it-make-kontakt-faster.69572/

    In it I saw mention of 'purged templates' but I'm not sure I understand what that is. Any chance there's a write up somewhere of what the best settings for Kontakt are for working on a single machine Mac in Logic with external sample SSDs in a multidock? (DFD, preload buffers, purging, etc?)

    I know it'll always take an age to load big sessions, but if there's a way to save a few seconds every time I load, that'd be amazing!

    Thanks!

    Jonik
     
  2. X-Bassist

    X-Bassist Senior Member

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    Sep 26, 2015
    A purged templete just means that each instance (usually kontakt) is loaded but purged (settings select “purge all samples”). Then Kontakt will just load the samples you need as you play them, allowing the rest to stay unloaded. This makes a large purged templete load much faster.

    If you use VE Pro to play samples (better multicore support usually allows for more instruments to be played at once before the CPU overloads) you can also disable or turn off channels, allowing logic to ingore less used banks until you need them. I usually just keep my most used instruments turned on. Load times are much faster.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Jonik

    Jonik Member

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    May 5, 2011
    Wow ok, that's really simple then.

    When the session is then loaded and saved, does it then start to build up again? So only the purged template is fast to load?

    Kontakt settings wise, what should my preload buffer be?

    Thanks!
     
  4. Guy Rowland

    Guy Rowland Senior Member

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    Dec 13, 2012
    In theory your project will load where it left off. So if - say - you'd loaded 30% of the samples on your last session, if you saved the DAW project or VE Pro in that state, then that 30% will load back up next time. If you're in VE Pro and you don't save an updated version, then it resets to nothing and loads incrementally once more.

    One thing to note - purged samples are only a part of the picture for load times and resource use. My old regular template was 41gb, and yet the vast majority was purged. It's amazing how much RAM adds up with just the instruments, their scripts and graphics etc. My full LASS setup takes about 6GB without a single sample loaded.

    To make an even more dramatic reduction in RAM use, then you'd need to look at disabling the channels completely. I'm evangelical about this in VE Pro - my current disabled and purged template loads in about 10 seconds in VE Pro, uses about 400mb of RAM and yet its considerably bigger than my old 41GB template. I remote control enabling from my keyboard touch pads as I need an instrument, takes anywhere between 2-5s usually, sometimes longer for the behemoths.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Jonik

    Jonik Member

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    3
    May 5, 2011
    Thanks Guy. That makes sense.

    I don't use VE Pro, and RAM usage hasn't really been an issue as I have 64gb and don't often come close to it, although I understand that it is all linked. I'm currently on 60kB for the Kontakt preload buffer, would going lower (much lower?) help shave off a few seconds when combined with purging?

    Thanks again!
     
  6. Guy Rowland

    Guy Rowland Senior Member

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    Dec 13, 2012
    It depends on your drive, but lower than 60kB should easily be possible and speed up loads in general. An SSD can get down to 6 in theory, but personally I've found 18 the trouble-free sweet spot.
     
    X-Bassist likes this.
  7. agarner32

    agarner32 Active Member

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    I've never figured out how to enable channels remotely. I remember a week or so ago someone said they would PM me on how this is done, but I could not find the thread. Right now I just do it manually which isn't a huge deal, but it would be great if I could enable/disable from my iPad using Metagrid.
     
  8. Guy Rowland

    Guy Rowland Senior Member

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    Dec 13, 2012
    Here you go -

     
    agarner32 likes this.
  9. agarner32

    agarner32 Active Member

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    Brilliant!! I appreciate it. What a wealth of information and you're quite entertaining. I was missing the transformer part in Cubase.

    Thanks much,
    Aaron
     
  10. Guy Rowland

    Guy Rowland Senior Member

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    I like that quote. Would look good on the website. Maybe even an epitaph.
     
  11. agarner32

    agarner32 Active Member

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    Well I thought I had it. I have no idea where I'm going wrong. I copied your settings in the transformer, but no luck. I can see the message being received in VEP when I tap the Metagrid button, but nothing happens. I even used cc19 like you did in the video.

    Maybe I'm not quite understanding how the Cubase transformer works in this instance. I'd never use cc7 because it's volume, but I tried setting up the automation to receive cc7 in Cubase just for the heck of it and that actually works without using the transformer.
     
  12. Guy Rowland

    Guy Rowland Senior Member

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    Dec 13, 2012
    If you're using Metagrid, you shouldn't need the Transformer at all - just set it to send the CC message. I can't remember which way round it is off the top of my head, but value 0 is enable and 127 disable or vice versa. That's literally it - just making sure the channel is set right in the automation window.

    Once you've got the first two channels working, the rest is just brute force and ignorance if its any consolation!
     
  13. agarner32

    agarner32 Active Member

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    Nov 7, 2015
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    I’m driving now, but when I get home I will give it another try. I know, I shouldn’t be texting but I’m using Siri. Thank you again for the response.

    Aaron
     
  14. agarner32

    agarner32 Active Member

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    Nov 7, 2015
    California
    I managed to create a button in Metagrid that raises an instance using cc127, but can't seem to create one to disable. I tried cc 0. Also, it loads the samples when I used 'disable" which sounds counterintuitive. I'm obviously clueless here. Thanks for any advice.
     

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