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Well, how do you do rhythm?

soro-sor

New Member
The thing is I don't know to create accents and nice rhythms to me it not jumpy like this, my tracks sound empty with lame rhythms, I dislike it.

Here is piano...
I like it.

Here is the rhythm spiccatos and some percs...
I don't dislike it, I hate it, am I this dumb...

I am trying to accent important notes or notes starts in melody and following that toc reate rhythm, but that is not happening and this is taking days and days, I ams tuck so anyone help this dumb.
How you do it, where is my mistake in aproach, why is it not elegant and flowing, why this sounds so bad?
 

MLL

New Member
Same problem here.
Not for days, but years.

When I hear someones track I am able to recreate it close to original, but I was never able to develop own idea with rhythm, and I would get exactly the same results like you do.
Also, I like the ideas I get on piano.

I would go this way
Bass long notes roots
Cellos spiccato
Violas spiccato
Violins 2 sustain harmony
Violins 1 highest melody

What I have tried
- Used staccato instead spiccato on main accents, never helped.
- Using violas for spiccato, and cellos and bassed for long notes. Fail, cellos overpower viola, and staccato can not be heard.
- Using every second note as accent, like TA ta TA ta Ta ta, often goes well, but it is boring.

What I have noticed in yours same as mine tracks is that we have empty space between accents, and this created boring, jumpy feeling in track.
Syncopated notes maybe should be higher with volume, but I am not sure, as I have tried that too.

After thinking for a year that I have problem with instrument ranges, I realized the problem lays simply in develop ing idea for rhythm.
And I have few question as well...
Should accents be same on percussion and spiccato?
If accents on percussion and spiccato are same, this creates obvious empty areas in tracks?
If spiccato and percussion accents are different this creates mess?


Hope someone will appear to explain our block.
 
Last edited:

MLL

New Member
Sounds better, but I hear da age percussion and classical strings and brass.
Avoid using damage if you do want many staccato in tracks, it will work with violina high pitch, but it will always clash with cellos and violas, while classical snares would not, they are more punchy, damage is fat and metal.
 

sIR dORT

Active Member
The thing is I don't know to create accents and nice rhythms to me it not jumpy like this, my tracks sound empty with lame rhythms, I dislike it.

Here is piano...
I like it.

Here is the rhythm spiccatos and some percs...
I don't dislike it, I hate it, am I this dumb...

I am trying to accent important notes or notes starts in melody and following that toc reate rhythm, but that is not happening and this is taking days and days, I ams tuck so anyone help this dumb.
How you do it, where is my mistake in aproach, why is it not elegant and flowing, why this sounds so bad?
Well, I'm still learning too, and I'm not the most creative person in terms of rhythm, but here's my take:

1) Listen around. Nothing wrong with stealing rhythms. If you want to hear a track that is a master class on rhythm within an orchestra, look up Halo 5: Guardians, Osiris suite 3 - listen to the entire song. Notice how the composer is almost conversational with the different percussive sounds - he's not just using one type of percussion instrument and then using different dynamics on that lone instrument to push the rhythm he wants.

2) Don't overthink it. Sometimes I hate stuff I've composed and others really like when they listen to it. In the relatively short time I've been composing, I've found that a lot of the time, your own ear can be too critical. When I listened to your stuff, it wasn't terrible. Simple, but not ineffective.

3) Don't feel a need to always fill empty space. It seems like you do fill space a lot (which isn't always bad), so instead, try to reverse that by not using the Damage loops. Example: Say you have a violin spiccato line up top doing 16ths for two measures. For the first measure, put a big hit (basses/cellos + percussion maybe) on the "3 and", and then let it ring out for the rest of that measure and the entire second measure. It's simple, but it kind of catches you're ear. Hopefully that made sense.

That is just my take. If you want, take a listen to Blakus' stuff, his rhythms aren't necessarily mind blowing, but he's so good at creating rhythms that are really effective within the context of the piece that they're in.

Hope this helps somewhat.
 

sIR dORT

Active Member
I kind of feel like a piece of crap for replying and acting like I know what I'm talking about, but I'm going to anyway.
Should accents be same on percussion and spiccato?
1) Really broad question. There's not really a standard line of thinking I don't think, it really just comes down to correctly judging the context of the piece. Would that combo be to much, or does it (the accent) need all the power it can get?

If accents on percussion and spiccato are same, this creates obvious empty areas in tracks?
2) Empty space isn't bad necessarily. If it's done tactfully enough, empty space (not completely empty, something has to keep the listener's ear interested), can actually be really effective IMHO.

If spiccato and percussion accents are different this creates mess?
3). I don't think so. Strings and percussion don't always have to be doing the same thing. I could create a rhythm right now in my head that has the strings and percussion accenting different beats.
 

waveheavy

Active Member
I think it depends more on the music genre and mood you're trying to create. If you're thinking in the 'mood', then you'll be searching for an appropriate rhythm for that 'mood'. For example, an emotional piece like American Beauty by Thomas Newman wouldn't work with an EDM style rhythm.

In contrast, check out this piece by Newman from American Beauty - called Dead Already. It's percussive, but light percussion:


It's mostly a standard 4/4 rhythm, but notice how the instruments are performed. It's syncopated. You won't easily get this kind of rhythmic feel by mouse input. It has to be played. You could in time learn how the MIDI notes should look with practice, and then write them in with a mouse. Easier to play them in, and come up with different rhythmic textures too through performance.
 

Shiirai

Resident Crow
I've been staring at this textbox for 10 minutes and don't know how to say what I want to say without sounding pretentious. So I'm just gonna type.

Whatever 'trick' you're going to acquire that lets you make 'reasonably interesting' rhythms, you're going to be faking it. Rhythm itself is not a trick. It is one of the very underpinnings of music. Rhythm, groove, must be *felt*. It's a sensibility and a skill. It's like feeling instinctively which words to use to get out a proper sentence. And like with language, it's folly to try and start learning with a doctoral dissertation.

I'm going to advise you to pick up a percussion instrument and learn to like it. Jam with other people, Jam with youtube, it doesn't matter that much. Get a nice hand-drum and get-a groovin'.

There is *no* disconnect between the accents in a melodic violin line and whatever groove or break you can think up on drum. Think of the jembe for example. Many of the lines I used to play handling the jembe I now use on melodic instruments.

Did you know the Bass Guitar in most bands is usually part of what's known as 'the rhythm section'? The Drumset and Bass are the dictators of groove in any rockband. The rhythm on the Bass will often complement what the drums are playing.

There's so much I want to say about rhythm, but the bottom line is that you have got to internalize rhythm. When you hear some cool piece of music you should be drumming along on your legs attempting to get the accents of the groove right. It's delightful.

If you 'have rhythm', you'll know instinctively where you want your accents to be. You'll be listening to a line and going, wait, this isn't right, this doesn't groove. And you'll know that you want your accent to be on the second note of that second triplet, because that's where it's supposed to be.

Seriously. Pick up a percussion instrument and master it. They don't have to be expensive and getting good doesn't have to take nearly as long as learning to play the violin.
 

Mike Fox

Senior Member
Interesting. You know, in my 20+ years of playing guitar, and few years of playing keys, I never thought about composing based around rhythm, and I never thought about it either. Rhythm was always just a byproduct of the riff, melody, or whatever else I wrote.

So, maybe try composing a melody or phrase that you like, and the rhythm will come naturally.
 

Jimmy Hellfire

Senior Member
In reality, tonal choices are secondary. The most elementary ingredient that produces the sensation of "music" is pulse, pace, motion and weight. And rhythm is natural for humans. Many of your bodily functions are based around it. I agree that it is best to sensitize oneself to feeling it. Which is made easy by the fact that it's physical.
 

onmadegringo

New Member
i got it it is not so easy but with exorcise i am able to create best Findoo rhythms with like a stick. you clap it on the 2 / 4 and go from their with tribal accents.my biggest lesson with rhythm was taking a bass guitar lesson (try not to pay too much if it isn't worth it) and just put it on rests. HOW? now this is where it's gets interesting: you will need a good (or best) samples library with tons of presets. I recommend the Serum sampler for viirtual strings and you are right with the spiccato. try col legno tratto on tthe longer notes i want to go play
 
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