VSL - Synchron Piano (out now)

SGordB

Active Member
Ok, to be more efficient, I should illustrate what I'm talking about.
This is one of the virtual piano I'm using. I recorded some notes from the low to the high to compare the realism, the subtleties and the expressiveness.

Now, this is the same excerpt with the VSL

For me, VSL doesn't do the job.
Nice playing - and the phat, smoky allure of your preferred piano (which VI is it?) is obvious. But is it possible you're shortchanging the CFX's potential? I'm hearing what sounds like a lot of room mic and/or reverb when the up-close jazz style calls for mostly or entirely unadorned close mic. I wasn't hearing that in the demos VSL posted, but it did come across a few times during Paul's walkthrough.
 

Francis Bourre

Active Member
Nice playing - and the phat, smoky allure of your preferred piano (which VI is it?) is obvious. But is it possible you're shortchanging the CFX's potential? I'm hearing what sounds like a lot of room mic and/or reverb when the up-close jazz style calls for mostly or entirely unadorned close mic. I wasn't hearing that in the demos VSL posted, but it did come across a few times during Paul's walkthrough.
Thank you. :)

About VSL, I took the player perspective, removed the reverb, switched off the room mic, and kept the closed one.
I raised a bit the closed one and opened the main one as 'good' suggested in his previous post. I agree with you, it's still wet and lacks of body and precision. It's obvious when you don't use the sustain pedal, play with dynamics and introduce silences in your performance. That's what I did on the jazz excerpt.

About the piano I'm using for this comparison:
My main piano sound is an Ivory American Concert D, (this is my favorite, but I use other ones) plus the Spitfire HZ piano, just for the harmonics to get kinda overtones. This is one of my tricks. I use the noises of the Steinway Imperfect Samples (in rarely mode). And I mix the whole thing with Spitfire Olafur Felt in the background (just the raw sound, not the rev channel) to add rounded colors in the low and some shininess in the high.
 

al_net77

Active Member
And yes, I appreciate their efforts as well, you're right to mention them. I just wanted to highlight a simple fact, I don't share the common enthusiasm shown in this thread, and VSL synchron piano won't be my goto piano, in any genre. Matter of taste and opinion as I said before. :)
Funny, I prefer CFX in this excerpt :)
 

SGordB

Active Member
Thank you. :)

About VSL, I took the player perspective, removed the reverb, switched off the room mic, and kept the closed one.
I raised a bit the closed one and opened the main one as 'good' suggested in his previous post. I agree with you, it's still wet and lacks of body and precision. It's obvious when you don't use the sustain pedal, play with dynamics and introduce silences in your performance. That's what I did on the jazz excerpt.

About the piano I'm using for this comparison:
My main piano sound is an Ivory American Concert D, (this is my favorite, but I use other ones) plus the Spitfire HZ piano, just for the harmonics to get kinda overtones. This is one of my tricks. I use the noises of the Steinway Imperfect Samples (in rarely mode). And I mix the whole thing with Spitfire Olafur Felt in the background (just the raw sound, not the rev channel) to add rounded colors in the low and some shininess in the high.
Thanks for the detailed reply. What happens when you cut the main mic on the VSL CFX?

Just out of curiosity, have you tried Piano in Blue? I don't own it, but it's the closest thing I've heard, in demos, to that woody, up-close-and-personal jazz tone I love (I actually come closest to it with Garritan's CFX Lite). I've been held back, in part, because PiB doesn't support half-pedalling.
 

al_net77

Active Member
Interesting. The dryness is flattering less your ears maybe? :) Just an intuition for now, maybe I'm wrong. You can't hear the room on mine, so... Tomorrow, if I got time I will make a new export with a hall reverb.
It's not the dryness, in the past I used to layer some pianos to get a more realistic sound, but more I listen to layered pianos, more I like the non-layered ones. I got the best results with American D over VGP, but IMHO this CFX is more ... real. Personal opinion, obviously :)
Listening again, maybe the layer that is "less real" in your example is the Felt piano, is quite distracting.
 

Francis Bourre

Active Member
Thanks for the detailed reply. What happens when you cut the main mic on the VSL CFX?

Just out of curiosity, have you tried Piano in Blue? I don't own it, but it's the closest thing I've heard, in demos, to that woody, up-close-and-personal jazz tone I love (I actually come closest to it with Garritan's CFX Lite). I've been held back, in part, because PiB doesn't support half-pedalling.
Yeah, when it was released I used it a lot. I preferred it to the galaxy steinway. :)
I will make a mp3 without the main mic tomorrow.
 

Francis Bourre

Active Member
It's not the dryness, in the past I used to layer some pianos to get a more realistic sound, but more I listen to layered pianos, more I like the non-layered ones. I got the best results with American D over VGP, but IMHO this CFX is more ... real. Personal opinion, obviously :)
Listening again, maybe the layer that is "less real" in your example is the Felt piano, is quite distracting.
Ok, I got the point. :) And sorry, I removed my comment before you posted yours to not hijack the topic.
Maybe, we should make a new thread to talk about virtual pianos in general...
 

CGR

Pianist, Composer & Arranger
Ok, to be more efficient, I should illustrate what I'm talking about.
This is one of the virtual piano I'm using. I recorded some notes from the low to the high to compare the realism, the subtleties and the expressiveness.

Now, this is the same excerpt with the VSL

For me, VSL doesn't do the job.
I can hear the appeal of the Ivory American Concert Grand in this type of playing (and it feels great whenever I use it) but compared to the VSL CFX, it sounds too processed and boxy to my ears, even taking into account the Dry Ivory sound vs the VSL Room ambience. The VSL CFX resonates more naturally - I feel I'm hearing a real piano in a real (large) space as opposed to a smooth digital piano. I would like to hear a modified mic setting of the VSL, to have less of the hall and more of the piano in the tone (the sound reminded me of when I was a teenager and would borrow the keys to the gym at school and play the grand piano they had at the side of the stage).
 

CGR

Pianist, Composer & Arranger
Thanks for the kind words.
I got hard time to find a classical midifile that soundcloud authorize me publish, but I found one.



And yes, I appreciate their efforts as well, you're right to mention them. I just wanted to highlight a simple fact, I don't share the common enthusiasm shown in this thread, and VSL synchron piano won't be my goto piano, in any genre. Matter of taste and opinion as I said before. :)
Is the 'My Piano' Ivory ACD example here layered with the other pianos you mentioned earlier? I'm hearing some odd phasing going on I don't recall from when I've used the Ivory ACD. Prefer VSL CFX in this example also - much more convincing acoustic piano tone to my ears.
 

good

Member
Thanks for the kind words.
I got hard time to find a classical midifile that soundcloud authorize me publish, but I found one.



And yes, I appreciate their efforts as well, you're right to mention them. I just wanted to highlight a simple fact, I don't share the common enthusiasm shown in this thread, and VSL synchron piano won't be my goto piano, in any genre. Matter of taste and opinion as I said before. :)
Ivory ACD is my another go-to piano. This VI goes well with any genre. When it comes to tone, it can perform better than VSL in specific song.
But in this excerpt, I would like to raise my hand on VSL. Of course, ACD is very, very good even if not layered. It may be a matter of taste as you say, but VSL's classical compatibility is now a top tier in terms of resonance and dynamics. I think it would be better to make some setting modifications as others said.

BTW your VI layering is very interesting. It certainly seems to be closer to realism by doing that. I would like to appoint you as the artisan of piano VI :)
 
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Lee Blaske

Senior Member
So from my own experience and needs, I was disappointed, because the sound is too thin for my use, and not only in the high. It lacks of body as well. It's too clean, I can't feel the instrument under my fingers, so I can't believe I'm playing piano, and without wanting to be rude with the product, I would say it sounds a bit dead.
Try dialing down the MIDI sensitivity a bit, and also experiment with the EQ within the plug-in. And, tweak the resonance. I was amazed at how much I was able to warm it up. I also prefer an external reverb to the built-in one. If, along with your controller, you're engaging the top dynamic samples too much, it is going to sound bright (and thin). I don't know how it works, but the entire instrument seems to take to the built-in EQ very well. Cut the highs, and boost the low mids. Also, are you using a continuously variable sustain pedal? I think this instrument really needs it to take advantage of all the pedal programming.
 

Lee Blaske

Senior Member
Ok, to be more efficient, I should illustrate what I'm talking about.
This is one of the virtual piano I'm using. I recorded some notes from the low to the high to compare the realism, the subtleties and the expressiveness.
I'm really coming to the conclusion that applying the same MIDI file to different plug-ins isn't fair. The one you actually record it on first has a distinct advantage, because you are actually playing that one. I know I play differently depending on exactly what's under my fingers.
 

Vadium

Active Member
General question for me in SY_CFX - why notes (especially in hi range) sounds like a double events, is it a hammer ricochet? listen same part played by sy (only close mic used) and garritan

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/one-or-double-notes-first-sy-and-second-garritan-one-note-mp3.13455/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/one-or-double-notes-first-sy-and-second-garritan-mp3.13456/][/AUDIOPLUS]
 

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good

Member
I have a standard version now, but I'm thinking about buying a full version before intro-offer expires.

Is the full version worth it?

I look forward to any advice of person who uses the full version.
 

composingkeys

New Member
Hi Good,

I find the full library a lot of fun for additional options in the sound. With the runtime delay on the microphones you can get a more animated/depth from the soundstage or you can turn them off for a more solid feel. The close mic 2 from Full Library also is great to use either with the close mic 1 from standard library or by itself.
 
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Vadium

Active Member
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good

Member
Hi good,
you can listen a comparison of individual microphones here https://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/t48770-Close-mics-A-B-comparaison#post271936

You can load these files onto DAW tracks and try different combinations
so, for me Close2 sounds better than Close1
Also good sound if you mix Close1 and Close2 together.
Room mix mic is over-wet and not useful for me - I has deleted it from ssd
oh, I have seen that post before, but I didn't know how to use properly those files so I listened to individual file.

After confirming your reply, I listened to the mix of those demos at my DAW and it was very interesting.
Mix of Close1 and Close2 certainly had more 'presence' than before. High and Surround mics show a deeper sense of space.

For me, High and Surround are not essential(it's good, of course) but the mix of close 1 and close 2 is a very attractive option. Mid 2 mic seems a little more spatial than mid 1 mic.

BTW I also listened to your one note playing of SY_CFX, and I thought it's because of round robin but on second thought, it's not easy to see double events in the round robin itself.
Is there a problem with the sampling? It may be fast to contact the VSL community.

The close mic 2 from Full Library also is great to use either with the close mic 1 from standard library or by itself.
Yeah! close1 is real enough, but mix with close2 is absolutely better. :thumbsup:
 
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star.keys

Senior Member
Is anyone using Synchron Piano with Doepfer LMK4+ and in that case, would you mind sharing what settings are working for you (both on the LMK4+ and Synchron software)? For me I'm either getting the tone very mellow (velocity tab 2) or very bright with reduced dynamic range (velocity tab 1) when I keep global MIDI sensitivity too around 28
 

keepitsimple

Active Member
Received my Vienna Key today and finally sat down and played my standard version.

I have to say that my impressions are mixed at the moment mainly due to my personal tastes and not in fault of the piano itself.

If i would describe this piano in 3 words, it would be: Tangy, organic, responsive.

- As i expected, Close Mic 1 really brings out that sharp close-to-the-strings sound which i'm not a fan of. If this was another library, i would probably set it aside to join the list of regretted blind purchases but i have to say that this piano is too enjoyable to play to do that.

- I expected the bass to have more power and "attack". Compared to Garritan CFX, it's too buttery.

- Release samples are the best i've heard so far. They bring realism and authenticity to this piano in a way no other piano library has done before.

That's it. Other than that, i'm really liking this piano. Close Mic 2 in the Full library might be what i need but for now i'm gonna experiment more with the mics i have.
 

keepitsimple

Active Member
I have to say i'm loving this piano.

The release samples are what make it a step ahead of other libraries. I never enjoyed playing soft lyrical melodies as much as i enjoy doing it on this piano and i think that's due largely to those release samples.

After experimenting for couple days, i decided not to touch the velocity sensitivity anymore. Setting it to negative values makes the bass buttery and it loses definition, which is a big NO for me. Leaving it at 0 works best for me.

Here's a little lively short jam i did to test how the bass reacts to the type of music i play: https://instaud.io/2jdx