VSL - Synchron Piano (out now)

kimarnesen

Senior Member
Naturally, there will be countless demos and of various styles, this was just the original first batch, soon more will be uploaded, Glass, Satie, Debussy, and then some on video played in real time, and cinematic style will be on the menu of course, hopefully by next week.
Very good, and preferably some intimate demos as well, and piano + strings.
 

keepitsimple

Active Member
What i really like to know: Is the Player perspective "lacking" or incomplete in the standard version? The reason i'm asking is because they seem to exclude the "Close 2" mic from the standard edition which per VSL microphones description on the instrument's page seems to play a vital role in the Player perspective.

I'm stressing on the player perspective because it seems to be the only one that showcases the clear/in your face/non-ambient sound of the piano.
 
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Gerbil

Active Member
Well I bought it. First impressions: It has the potential to be the best sampled piano. Brilliant dynamic range, feels good to play and I love the mixer and mic choices. I've seen a customer mention the powerful bass but weak treble (which I thought as well from the original demos) but, now I've played it, I disagree; it's nicely balanced.

My concern lies not so much with the tuning that I've seen others mention or any brighter notes (which can usually be tamed with a surgical eq - be nice to have the option in the interface btw) but the release samples which, in their current state, do not sound at all natural. Abrupt cutoffs that make it sound (and feel) like I'm playing a clavinet, particularly in fast, light staccato passages. They need tweaking and I really miss the release function present in a number of other virtual pianos such as the Garritan CFX. If they can get this right then this will be a killer instrument.

It's interesting to compare it to the other two sampled piano libraries I've bought of late: the L&S and the Cinepiano. I really like the latter just to play but, now I've got to know it, it does have some abrupt velocity jumps that make it a lovely sounding but somewhat niche product. I don't regret the purchase though. I wish I could say the same about the L&S grand which I like less and less the more I play it. It is absolutely riddled with flaws and there are some curious mic choices that I find wearing on my ears. It was only $99 but it still feels like a beta release to me.
 

kimarnesen

Senior Member
Well I bought it. First impressions: It has the potential to be the best sampled piano. Brilliant dynamic range, feels good to play and I love the mixer and mic choices. I've seen a customer mention the powerful bass but weak treble (which I thought as well from the original demos) but, now I've played it, I disagree; it's nicely balanced.

My concern lies not so much with the tuning that I've seen others mention or any brighter notes (which can usually be tamed with a surgical eq - be nice to have the option in the interface btw) but the release samples which, in their current state, do not sound at all natural. Abrupt cutoffs that make it sound (and feel) like I'm playing a clavinet, particularly in fast, light staccato passages. They need tweaking and I really miss the release function present in a number of other virtual pianos such as the Garritan CFX. If they can get this right then this will be a killer instrument.

It's interesting to compare it to the other two sampled piano libraries I've bought of late: the L&S and the Cinepiano. I really like the latter just to play but, now I've got to know it, it does have some abrupt velocity jumps that make it a lovely sounding but somewhat niche product. I don't regret the purchase though. I wish I could say the same about the L&S grand which I like less and less the more I play it. It is absolutely riddled with flaws and there are some curious mic choices that I find wearing on my ears. It was only $99 but it still feels like a beta release to me.
Would love to hear you compare them.
 

Lee Blaske

Senior Member
My concern lies not so much with the tuning that I've seen others mention or any brighter notes (which can usually be tamed with a surgical eq - be nice to have the option in the interface btw) but the release samples which, in their current state, do not sound at all natural. Abrupt cutoffs that make it sound (and feel) like I'm playing a clavinet, particularly in fast, light staccato passages. They need tweaking and I really miss the release function present in a number of other virtual pianos such as the Garritan CFX.
I think the abruptly cut off notes are actually a feature, because they're using different samples (or at least, different cut-offs) for those short notes. That's one area where a lot of libraries fall short, because the cut off sound on a short note is very different from a long note (the dampers are choking off a lot of energy very quickly in the case of a short note). But, it's a real technical challenge to make a virtual instrument do this. When you first play a note, the virtual instrument has no idea if it's going to be long or short. It can't read your mind. ;) So, if it's going to be an instrument that can be played spontaneously in real time, it needs to be prepared to give you the long note cut-off, or the short note cut-off. It would be interesting for a developer to explain some of the technology they're using to do this. Must be some kind of timer. Pretty amazing that things are at a point where they're doing this. I would imagine that these are the kinds of things that can be tweaked endlessly (all the timings and volume levels that are engaged by relatively little MIDI controller information). So, maybe we'll see a revision that's a little better. But this is probably part of the reason that there are 4,200 samples per note in this instrument. Maybe to capture even more nuance will require 10,000 samples per note. It could be that we've reached the point where we need keyboard controllers that send more information about what a key is doing than just note on, velocity and note off.
 

Nicola74

Active Member
I think the abruptly cut off notes are actually a feature, because they're using different samples (or at least, different cut-offs) for those short notes. That's one area where a lot of libraries fall short, because the cut off sound on a short note is very different from a long note (the dampers are choking off a lot of energy very quickly in the case of a short note). But, it's a real technical challenge to make a virtual instrument do this. When you first play a note, the virtual instrument has no idea if it's going to be long or short. It can't read your mind. ;) So, if it's going to be an instrument that can be played spontaneously in real time, it needs to be prepared to give you the long note cut-off, or the short note cut-off. It would be interesting for a developer to explain some of the technology they're using to do this. Must be some kind of timer. Pretty amazing that things are at a point where they're doing this. I would imagine that these are the kinds of things that can be tweaked endlessly (all the timings and volume levels that are engaged by relatively little MIDI controller information). So, maybe we'll see a revision that's a little better. But this is probably part of the reason that there are 4,200 samples per note in this instrument. Maybe to capture even more nuance will require 10,000 samples per note. It could be that we've reached the point where we need keyboard controllers that send more information about what a key is doing than just note on, velocity and note off.
...like, for example, how fast you release the key, in a real piano it can be important
 

CGR

Pianist, Composer & Arranger
Out of interest, I ran the midi file of the VSL CFX demo recreation by diretonic through a sampled Yamaha C7:

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/vsl-cfx-demo-recreation-c7-mp3.13318/][/AUDIOPLUS]
 

Attachments

Guy Bacos

Senior Member
Just a footnote, this midi file is not the same interpretation as on the VSL demo, there are inaccuracies, I know since I wrote it. Someone else transcribed it by ear, still good job, but a bit off.
 

Lee Blaske

Senior Member
Quick little demo soloing over jazz standard changes here using the Synchron Piano with a more intimate, lounge sound. I started with the 02 Intimate to Sur Stereo preset and tweaked the EQ a bit. Turned off the reverb in the plug-in and added some 2CAudio B2 reverb. Waves Kramer Tape plug-in on the master bus.

 

keepitsimple

Active Member
Quick little demo soloing over jazz standard changes here using the Synchron Piano with a more intimate, lounge sound. I started with the 02 Intimate to Sur Stereo preset and tweaked the EQ a bit. Turned off the reverb in the plug-in and added some 2CAudio B2 reverb. Waves Kramer Tape plug-in on the master bus.

Very nice solo, i like your ideas. You mention Sur Stereo. Correct me if i'm wrong but don't you have the standard version?
 

Lee Blaske

Senior Member
Very nice solo, i like your ideas. You mention Sur Stereo. Correct me if i'm wrong but don't you have the standard version?
Yes, I just have the standard version at this point. I selected the 02 Intimate Sur to Stereo preset, which is available to me in the list, and loads when you select it. But now going back and looking at the Mix page, I guess I'm not actually getting the "Close 2" mic position, but just "Close 1." So, that must be the only position that's sounding here (even though that preset loads).

Still figuring this plug-in out. I thought it was some type of pre-mix (like the mixes in a lot of Spitfire Audio products).
 

theohjorth

New Member
Have any of you bought the full version?
Im primarily using it for live use - playing salsa, jazz, gospel etc., and have the standard version now, but I cant decide if the other close microphone is worth the extra € 165..
Any thoughts on that? :)
 

C-Wave

Senior Member
Question: what do i get if i am to buy the standard version if i have vienna Imperial.. besides the tone ofthe actual physical piano (bosendorfer vs yamaha).. and i dont mean the statistics, but in actual playability.
 

al_net77

Active Member
Question: what do i get if i am to buy the standard version if i have vienna Imperial.. besides the tone ofthe actual physical piano (bosendorfer vs yamaha).. and i dont mean the statistics, but in actual playability.
I own both. CFX has better dynamics and a much better pedal management, more playable in general.
Something strange in symphatetic resonance and missing silent key, I asked on VSL forum but no response for now.
 

C-Wave

Senior Member
I own both. CFX has better dynamics and a much better pedal management, more playable in general.
Something strange in symphatetic resonance and missing silent key, I asked on VSL forum but no response for now.
thanks for the reply.. but what do you mean by “something strange..” do you mean because its not there?
 
Something strange in symphatetic resonance and missing silent key, I asked on VSL forum but no response for now.
Yes, hope they will add back the "silent key" feature if it is currently missing. How about re-pedalling? How well does it work compared to other similar products?
 

al_net77

Active Member
thanks for the reply.. but what do you mean by “something strange..” do you mean because its not there?
There is something in the sound that changes if you set symphatetic res more than -inf, but IMHO is quite different from usual symphatetic resonance; the sound seems more "resonant", but if you keep a chord pressed and you play lower notes, there is no string vibrating...