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VSL Scoring Bundle

Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by syrinx, Sep 13, 2017 at 12:09 AM.

  1. syrinx

    syrinx Member

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    Has anyone bought the limited offer bundle by VSL? If so does it feel justified? I have a few of the solo wws and brass but the offer is still tempting since you get MIR24, Synchron reverb for it and the Synchron perc. I could also get the 40% extra discount which would be insane saving.

    I'm feeling as if at a crossroads, should I invest even more in VSL (currently around 3000€) or start getting other stuff (I do have CSS and like it, but not too blown away to be convinced to "leave" VSL). I have MIRx and IMO VSL can sound as good as Spitfire, although maybe VSL sounds a bit too clean sometimes, but I'm not impressed enough to invest 3000€ all over again to get a 5% more gritty sound with less articulations (this is my view, not meant as smack talk).

    If I keep to VSL, the scoring bundle would be a step up, with MIR and Synchron Perc, and some of the instruments.

    I've also thought about getting EWQL just to mix it with VSL to get some variation. Does EWQL newer stuff still sound a bit "midi"?

    Would love some general feedback/thoughts!
     
  2. ctsai89

    ctsai89 Poem of Ecstasy

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    https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Instruments/Scoring_Bundle

    that first hedwig demo didn't quite sound realistic, definiltey more midi to me. Sort of like sibelius 6 playback. But it could be the midi programmer's fault, not the actual libraries.

    My thought:

    not worth over 1000$

    with that much money even at the discount you could basically get at least 2 berlin products or even the spitfire orchestra (without the percussion). But seriously I can use logic pro stock percussions and still sound as good or even better than those percussions that cost 500$+

    Listen and compare the demo and judge with your own ears

    https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/instruments/orchestra/spitfire-symphony-orchestra/

    Andy blaney's demoes are indistinguishable from as if it were actually performed.

    Mean while VSL's demoes always sounded like midi performances to my ears. Never able to really fool me.

    Best of luck deciding where you want to spend your money! Remember there are peoeple working for less than $10 an hour.
     
  3. Saxer

    Saxer Senior Member

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    I would choose different instruments from VSL for scoring. Especially Appassionata Strings sound very boring to my ears.
    VSL libraries I use frequently are Dimension Strings and Dimension Brass and single woodwinds. And I have the complete Special Edition where I made a lot of stacked string sections (Solo, Chamber, Orchestral + Appassionata) which work well too. I use them for compatibility reasons in a team work.
    I have MIRx and I don't use it very much. But MIRpro might be the most interesting part of the bundle if you want to go that road.

    ctsai89's avid hate for everything VSL is well known. But he's right with the Spitfire package: good sounding out of the box. But you are set to the room. What I like is the flexibility of VSL. For me it shines for dryer stuff. And the VSL PlayerPro is the best sample player for orchestral samples out there.
     
    Paul T McGraw and ctsai89 like this.
  4. ctsai89

    ctsai89 Poem of Ecstasy

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    There's nothing that's not related to the element of music that fuels my hate though. I don't work for Spitfire or any sample libraries so I hope Im not completely looked upon as completely subjective and biased.

    When I hear demoes from the VSL site I just think of several things: their libraries may be very good and they want to hide that fact by uploading more fake sounding demoes because something about something too good to be revealed. Or they don't care enough to hire or post up better demoes. Or very rarely do you ever encounter someone who's actually good at midi programming with VSL (like you are @Saxer You're good)

    nonetheless VSL turns me off because of those things but they are professional and are quick to solve any bugs and problems as I've heard.

    by no means I'm telling anyone to make decisions based on hearing demoes alone.

    Like, I would assume demoes posted on developer's sites are to showcase what their libraries are like, with the best reverb to show that it can still sound realistic. But almost none of them do... At times I can't even tell what instruments were playing when they're doubled together
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017 at 2:02 AM
  5. dhlkid

    dhlkid Senior Member

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    Better replace the strings & Brass with something else….
     
    ctsai89 likes this.
  6. holywilly

    holywilly Senior Member

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    VSL Strings blends well with live strings because it's complete dry and makes my mixing engineer happy.

    And No, I don't think the scoring bundle worth the price, can't really do much with the standard library. However, I found that MIR is good for positioning each instrument (I turn the wet signal complete off) instead of panning.
     
    ctsai89 likes this.
  7. Paul T McGraw

    Paul T McGraw Senior Member

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    @syrinx if you agree with @ctsai89 that the demos on the VSL website sound completely "MIDI" and "fake sounding" then obviously don't buy any more VSL products. I think @ctsai89 is completely wrong, and his hatred of everything VSL borders upon insanity. You will find @ctsai89 showing up whenever VSL is mentioned on this forum for the sole purpose of denigrating VSL. Is he being paid by some competitor to attack VSL? I hope so, otherwise he really is nuts to spend so much of his time searching for a mention of VSL in order to call it "MIDI and fake sounding."

    I love the "Hedwig" demo on the VSL website. It is not as good as live musicians of course. But you will not find any other developer doing better on music of similar difficulty. I agree with @Saxer that the Appassionata Strings lack definition and bite (by design) and if you buy the scoring bundle your next move would have to be to buy either Dimension Strings, or Chamber Strings. Layering the Chamber Strings with Appassionata Strings can work very well, and Chamber Strings are easier to work with than Dimension Strings.

    I am fortunate enough to have all of the VSL full library, plus Berlin Brass, Spitfire Symphonic Strings, Chris Hein Brass, several of Cinesamples products, and lots of other things I can't remember right now. In my opinion, once you get used to VSL it is the most logical, consistent, and flexible of any library I have used. When you consider the efficient (in terms of RAM and CPU load) Vienna Instruments Pro player with it's humanization features, it is hard to do better than VSL. But it will require a lot of work to get everything set up in a way that is logical to you, and learn how to use all of the articulations and controls. None of this stuff is easy.

    I really like the sound of the Spitfire Symphonic Strings and Berlin Brass, and they can be really great in lots of music. But both are less flexible and consistent than VSL.

    You could buy the complete Spitfire Symphonic Collection for $1,700 and create a lot of great music with that collection. You would have the advantage of not needing much (if any) knowledge about mixing, reverb, etc. Check out the music being created by @AlexanderSchiborr using an all Spitfire orchestra. In my opinion his recent tracks are better than the demos on the Spitfire website.

    Trust your own ears. It is what YOU like that really matters. You will be working with whatever you buy for many, many hours. Listen to the demos and remember that the demos represent the best that can be achieved with that library.
     
    C-Wave and fiestared like this.
  8. ctsai89

    ctsai89 Poem of Ecstasy

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    But you should post your Elgar cello concerto made by Vsl. I think it would give OP a real good idea
     
  9. Lotias

    Lotias Senior Member

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    The newer stuff? Do you mean Hollywood Orchestra? The general consensus on that is that after massaging and editing, it won't sound MIDI at all - given you understand the library. Same can be said for VSL. Their (much) older orchestral samples will definitely not sound as realistic, however.
     
  10. mikeybabes

    mikeybabes Only the good die young....

    I won't invest in VSL myself because of their policy regarding lost and damaged dongles (I travel a lot and its too much of a risk).

    However, I have listened to quite a few tracks/demos featuring VSL and have always found that the most convincing and engaging performances always seem to be VSL libraries layered with libraries form other manufacturers.

    Mind you, if you have 3k of VSL already I am wondering what you are missing from the VSL palette.

    If VSL is how you want to go, I think someone is selling their symphonic cube in the classifieds....
     
  11. C-Wave

    C-Wave Senior Member

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    I'm selling several of their full (not SE) libraries too in the classifieds.. their Mir Pro too..just because I now have lots of duplicates.. too much for a hobbyist. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017 at 3:23 PM
  12. OP
    OP
    syrinx

    syrinx Member

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    I have basically the same stuff as you (DS, DB, some WWs and SE). Would you say MIR is a big difference from MIRx sound wise? I usually use the standard orchestra setup so I'm not sure it'd be such an useful upgrade with the positioning aspect, unless it really sounds better. I guess people ask this about MIR all the time though...
     
  13. OP
    OP
    syrinx

    syrinx Member

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    May 7, 2016
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    I really liked the Hedwig demo as well. Sure some of the vast number of VSL demos sound "midi" with but tbh I think it's more because the ones making them has different kind of taste than me (usually a bit too dry for my taste).

    Since I already have DS maybe it would actually make sense to get the bundle with the App strings.
    My mixing skills are not that bad and I actually only use MIRx because it's handy. I can get similar sound with regular plugins (although the brass is hard to get just right but MIRx does it perfect), so Spitfire for the sake of "less mixing" isn't really appealing to me. I have used VSL since 2011 so I'm very comfortable in that workflow (I'm almost as comfortable in Kontakt though).

    I guess the biggest question for me is if it's worth stepping up from MIRx to MIR.
     
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  14. EgM

    EgM Game music!

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    MIRx is fine if you mostly use VSL instruments. I think most people who get MIR Pro is because it makes it easier to deal with their VEP template placement and verb, since you can use it on any VSTi/AUi.
     
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  15. Paul T McGraw

    Paul T McGraw Senior Member

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    MIR Pro has more options, including some preset EQ choices if you want them. However, @Dietz did a super job with MIRx. If for example you compare an instrument in Teldex using MIRx and MIR Pro, positioned in the same spot, the sound is identical. Also the room sound of Teldex MIRx and MIR Pro is identical with the room sound of Teldex you hear with Berlin Brass. This makes it a no-brainer to mix Berlin Brass (or any Orchestral Tools library) and VSL. So if you want more options for instrument placement within the venue and options for custom EQ settings, then MIR Pro works great. If you don't need to customize instrument positions and you do your own EQ, you aren't missing out on anything by staying with MIRx.

    Good luck with your decision.
     
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  16. Saxer

    Saxer Senior Member

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    I don't have full MIR so I can't compare but as far as I know MIR and MIRx is the same soundwise. MIRx is based on presets and you can use it in the ViennaPlayer only.
     
    Paul T McGraw likes this.
  17. synergy543

    synergy543 Senior Member

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    MIR gives you lots of additional controls over important parameters that can greatly affect the sound such as the ability to position the instruments exactly where you wish, a secondary mic for a much more expansive sound, mic character EQ and room EQ. You also get Miracle which is essential for adding algorithm liveness to the IR sounds of MIR. I could not imagine using VSL with only MIRx, it just doesn't offer enough control for me. MIR is the other half of the VSL sound IMO. If you don't use MIR, then preferably you have something more substantial than just MIRx such as Altiverb+Lexicon Native.
     
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  18. benatural

    benatural Senior Member

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    Slightly OT... I love VSL winds. I have the special edition and like them a lot. Aside from more articulations, what benefit is there to upgrading to full single winds? Example, dynamic xfade in SE is completely unusable, is that improved in the full version?
     
  19. Lotias

    Lotias Senior Member

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    Something I noticed about VSL crossfades that they are much more smooth in legato patches; it won't be much improved for regular sustain/staccato patches AFAIK. And most of the legato patches are only 2 dynamics even in the full libraries, if I remember. The smoothest results you'll get are the dynamic patches, legato patches (which may or may not induce phasing), or patches with high amounts of dynamic layers (the crossfades on timpani rolls are not nearly as bad). You can always ask VSL support for manuals for individual libraries which have more details. You can also try using the expression/filter sliders rather than crossfading.
    EDIT: apparently my suggestion for slot crossfades doesn't work the way I thought it did.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017 at 12:11 AM
  20. synergy543

    synergy543 Senior Member

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    You can also use the Master Filter (under Options) to smooth out transitions by tracking the MIDI CC (set in Ctrl Map). In the Full Libs (probably extended) there are plenty of actual sampled dynamics (not sure if these are in SE libs or not).
     

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