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Virtual room simulation for headphone : which plugin ? Experience feedback ?

Waves also has the Abbey Road Studio 3 room simulation for headphones:

There is an option to use it with NX, but it works absolutely fine without NX. The only thing NX gives you is the ability to rotate the audio image in space with your head, which is not the most essential thing for mixing and can be accomplished manually in the ARS3 interface, if you need it.

I mix with monitors, but use ARS3 to check my mixes. It's nice because ARS3 simulates 3 different pairs of speakers at 3 different room positions, providing the opportunity to hear your mix in different contexts. I find it a useful tool for "sanity checks" on my mixes. Can't say how effective it is for full mixing duties, but I imagine it would work at least as well as any other headphone room simulators.
 
I don't use it much, but I bought sonarworks for fun to test with my LCD X and HD650s. It works pretty well, but is a little hotter in the 1k area than I think it should be. The toneboosters morhphit option is also nice, but sounds a little scooped in the low mids. I think either option is great for the low price of entry.
 
I don't use it much, but I bought sonarworks for fun to test with my LCD X and HD650s. It works pretty well, but is a little hotter in the 1k area than I think it should be. The toneboosters morhphit option is also nice, but sounds a little scooped in the low mids. I think either option is great for the low price of entry.
Is there a reason you don't use Sonarworks much? I am trialling it with my HD650s and you can hear a difference but to be honest it is not having to do a huge EQ correction. I am wondering if I really need it or not, though I might need it more for the DT770s I will get.
 
Is there a reason you don't use Sonarworks much? I am trialling it with my HD650s and you can hear a difference but to be honest it is not having to do a huge EQ correction. I am wondering if I really need it or not, though I might need it more for the DT770s I will get.
It's really only because I have some pretty serious monitoring for my day job and I prefer to stay on my Tyler and Dunlavy mains. I don't do much actual work on headphones. I do have a monitor output setup in Wavelab pro with sonarworks for my LCD X but I only do quick QC checks for pops and clicks etc so it's very short. It does solve the mid dip in those headphones and it's much better than the software Audeze provides free (Reveal) and sells (Reveal Plus).

I will say I think the generic curve for the HD650 is closer to spot on, likely because they measure a lot more of them. I don't use them often unless I'm sketching ideas and then I don't tend to want the latency imposed by SW. I

If I had to do a project with my LCD X and sonarworks I definitely could, and it's great value. They have a demo you can try out with existing headphones (if a profile is available). Keep in mind that even the low latency resolution still has a fair amount of latency, and using systemwide is even more. So definitely try it out if you can on the demo.

Morphit has a free demo as well and is pretty similar, but cheaper (a lot cheaper).

Excuse any typos, writing quickly from phone.
 
Waves also has the Abbey Road Studio 3 room simulation for headphones:

There is an option to use it with NX, but it works absolutely fine without NX. The only thing NX gives you is the ability to rotate the audio image in space with your head, which is not the most essential thing for mixing and can be accomplished manually in the ARS3 interface, if you need it.

I mix with monitors, but use ARS3 to check my mixes. It's nice because ARS3 simulates 3 different pairs of speakers at 3 different room positions, providing the opportunity to hear your mix in different contexts. I find it a useful tool for "sanity checks" on my mixes. Can't say how effective it is for full mixing duties, but I imagine it would work at least as well as any other headphone room simulators.
Been having a look at ARS3 and the mix room+NX both are cheap at the moment ARS3 $50 and mix room+NX $59. Not sure if I need them though. I have Presonus Eris 5 monitors but they are still in the box as treating the room with sound absorbing panels then having to but the full version of sonarworks Reference 4 with mic get quite expensive. This looks like it could be cheaper but you worry you are throwing money away on something you won't use in the end
 
It's really only because I have some pretty serious monitoring for my day job and I prefer to stay on my Tyler and Dunlavy mains. I don't do much actual work on headphones. I do have a monitor output setup in Wavelab pro with sonarworks for my LCD X but I only do quick QC checks for pops and clicks etc so it's very short. It does solve the mid dip in those headphones and it's much better than the software Audeze provides free (Reveal) and sells (Reveal Plus).

I will say I think the generic curve for the HD650 is closer to spot on, likely because they measure a lot more of them. I don't use them often unless I'm sketching ideas and then I don't tend to want the latency imposed by SW. I

If I had to do a project with my LCD X and sonarworks I definitely could, and it's great value. They have a demo you can try out with existing headphones (if a profile is available). Keep in mind that even the low latency resolution still has a fair amount of latency, and using systemwide is even more. So definitely try it out if you can on the demo.

Morphit has a free demo as well and is pretty similar, but cheaper (a lot cheaper).

Excuse any typos, writing quickly from phone.
Thank you for this, for me sonarworks is to avoid having to sound treat a room to work with my monitors. I will keep trialling sonarworks them and see how I go
 
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I have Sonarworks & Abbey Road Studio 3. Both are constantly in use, depending on the context.

I found that Sonarworks is a great little plugin to flatten my headphone response with very little CPU footprint, so it’s on by default when composing and arranging. Just don’t forget to turn it off before exporting your track.

Abbey Road Studio 3 is a different beast though and offers a way to reference your mix in, dare I say it, more natural environment? It’s certainly more than just a reverb and delay, since Waves made a binaural recordings of the space with 3 different monitors. Besides, it also offers headphone calibration for about a dozen of the most popular cans, so no need for Sonarworks (I actually noticed weird and unpleasant phasing when using both, so I would avoid combining them together). I usually use it only at a mixing stage, great way to get a new perspective and imagine yourself sitting in that multi million dollar studio. Who said music shouldn’t be fun? :)

I’ve also recently purchased another room simulation plugin which was recommended to me by a good friend of mine who is somewhat an engineering nerd - Realphones https://www.dsoniq.com/
It has way more presets and settings to tweak compared to Abbey Road Studio 3 as well as a headphone calibration profile for almost every can (although you have to purchase them separately). The room is a Moscow film studio and, to be honest, I find this plugin’s simulation a bit more focused and realistic-ish?

But I still use both rooms in the end to check if there are any major discrepancies in every mix. Abundance of choice and all that.

They all have free trials, so I would definitely recommend to check those out first before buying. Just remember that it takes time for your ears to adjust, so I’d spend a couple of days just listening to my favorite mixes through different virtual speakers to really “get” the sound of the room. After that it’s plug and play.

Cheers,
Mark
 
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I have Sonarworks & Abbey Road Studio 3. Both are constantly in use, depending on the context.

I found that Sonarworks is a great little plugin to flatten my headphone response with very little CPU footprint, so it’s on by default when composing and arranging. Just don’t forget to turn it off before exporting your track.

Abbey Road Studio 3 is a different beast though and offers a way to reference your mix in, dare I say it, more natural environment? It’s certainly more than just a reverb and delay, since Waves made a binaural recordings of the space with 3 different monitors. Besides, it also offers headphone calibration for about a dozen of the most popular cans, so no need for Sonarworks (I actually noticed weird and unpleasant phasing when using both, so I would avoid combining them together). I usually use it only at a mixing stage, great way to get a new perspective and imagine yourself sitting in that multi million dollar studio. Who said music shouldn’t be fun? :)

I’ve also recently purchased another room simulation plugin which was recommended to me by a good friend of mine who is somewhat an engineering nerd - Realphones https://www.dsoniq.com/
It has way more presets and settings to tweak compared to Abbey Road Studio 3 as well as a headphone calibration profile for almost every can (although you have to purchase them separately). The room is a Moscow film studio and, to be honest, I find this plugin’s simulation a bit more focused and realistic-ish?

But I still use both rooms in the end to check if there are any major discrepancies in every mix. Abundance of choice and all that.

They all have free trials, so I would definitely recommend to check those out first before buying. Just remember that it takes time for your ears to adjust, so I’d spend a couple of days just listening to my favorite mixes through different virtual speakers to really “get” the sound of the room. After that it’s plug and play.

Cheers,
Mark
I went with Realphones as well after trialing several other options. For me it gave me the best listening experience. Cannot say it is like monitoring speakers in a treated room as I don't use any. However I did like the sound it produced and the options it gave. The competitive sale price also helped!
 
I have Sonarworks & Abbey Road Studio 3. Both are constantly in use, depending on the context.

I found that Sonarworks is a great little plugin to flatten my headphone response with very little CPU footprint, so it’s on by default when composing and arranging. Just don’t forget to turn it off before exporting your track.

Abbey Road Studio 3 is a different beast though and offers a way to reference your mix in, dare I say it, more natural environment? It’s certainly more than just a reverb and delay, since Waves made a binaural recordings of the space with 3 different monitors. Besides, it also offers headphone calibration for about a dozen of the most popular cans, so no need for Sonarworks (I actually noticed weird and unpleasant phasing when using both, so I would avoid combining them together). I usually use it only at a mixing stage, great way to get a new perspective and imagine yourself sitting in that multi million dollar studio. Who said music shouldn’t be fun? :)

I’ve also recently purchased another room simulation plugin which was recommended to me by a good friend of mine who is somewhat an engineering nerd - Realphones https://www.dsoniq.com/
It has way more presets and settings to tweak compared to Abbey Road Studio 3 as well as a headphone calibration profile for almost every can (although you have to purchase them separately). The room is a Moscow film studio and, to be honest, I find this plugin’s simulation a bit more focused and realistic-ish?

But I still use both rooms in the end to check if there are any major discrepancies in every mix. Abundance of choice and all that.

They all have free trials, so I would definitely recommend to check those out first before buying. Just remember that it takes time for your ears to adjust, so I’d spend a couple of days just listening to my favorite mixes through different virtual speakers to really “get” the sound of the room. After that it’s plug and play.

Cheers,
Mark
I have used headphones to mix for many years and have recently started using the Waves Nx Virtual Mix Room (Nx VMR) and Abbey Road Studio 3 (ARS3). There are a few things that I haven't seen mentioned here that need to be.

1) Head tracking is very important. Why? Because no acoustic environment is perfectly flat. This is one of the things that makes it sound real. The peaks and valleys are different in each ear (above about 200.Hz) and change frequency and amplitude depending on the orientation of your head. So, in an actual acoustic space, the movement of your head essentially gives you an average of these peaks and valleys.

2) The peaks and valleys below about 200.Hz are much more stable. Assuming you have good speakers, these peaks and valleys are primarily caused by the room and its furnishings, but some amount of this is caused by the speakers themselves.

I've been evaluating both of these products and here's what I've found:
1) The Nx VMR is flatter than any of the three sets of speakers in ARS3. Approximately +/- 2dB for the Nx vs about +/- 4.5dB for ARS3.
2) Although both respond to turning your left and right, the Nx VMR head tracking also responds to left/right and front/back motion of your head. So, for me, the Nx seems to be better for judging a mix.

As concerns EQing the headphones, the problem here is who do you believe? I use AudioTechnica ATH-M50 with the recommended parametric EQ settings from AutoEQ (https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq). It sounds fine, but out of curiosity, bought the ToneBoosters plugin today to see what it did. Unfortunately, they are similar but not the same. The most obvious differences are in the 20-60.Hz and 10k-20.kHz regions. The frequency response measurements I've seen of this headphone makes me lean toward the AutoEQ correction curve as being more correct, but who knows? So, now I'm trying to suss that out.

EDIT 12/30/2020: I discovered that I had the wrong target curve set in ToneBooster's Morphit. With the Harmon AE/OE target selected, it is now very close to AutoEQ. So, either will do the job.

Enough of my jabber. Check this out: https://www.acousticsinsider.com/flat-frequency-response/
 
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I hesitate to suggest this, as I can just see all of the eyes rolling, but adding a bass shaker made a big difference for me. However, it took more than an amplifier and screwing the transducer to any old thing to get it to feel right. Although the following worked for me, I have nothing more than my opinion to back it up.

I initially tried mounting the transducer on a piece of plywood that my chair sat on, but found that it just didn't feel right. I felt it in my feet, but it wasn't "in the air". I then mounted it on the bottom of my chair and found that it worked much better; more like it was in the air, but still not quite right.

So, I took a little trip to my living room and played music at a decent volume over my stereo system that includes a sub woofer. One thing I noticed was that the floor vibrations never seemed to get out of control the way they did with the bass shaker. So, I went back to the bass shaker and realized that the uneven bass response due to its resonant frequency was a contributing factor. So, I used a parametric EQ to flatten it out. This was a huge improvement, but there was still something wrong.

I realized that the remaining problem was the dynamic range of the shaking. If I set the level so that it felt right at lower levels, it was too much during loud passages, and vice versa. So, I added a compressor and voila, that fixed the problem. But, why did that work? Why would vibrations in the floor seem to be compressed? The only BS explanation I could come up with was that the limited excursion of floors and walls might actually be acting as a natural soft clipper. All I know is, it worked for me.

You can all unroll your eyes now. :whistling:
 
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