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VEPro with Logic routing...?

Puzzlefactory

Senior Member
Just wondering how people set up their VEPro templates?

I've got two ideas for a setup.

One is to have a separate aux channel for every instrument in VEPro (and create a track for each aux channel in the arrange page, as they kind of behave like an instrument channel when set up that way).

The other is to create one stereo output for each "family" of instruments and then just have midi channels in Logics arrange page for the individual instruments (and do any level balancing either in VEPro or with dynamics automation).

Was wondering which of these methods others use? Or if anyone has a different setup to what I just described?
 
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Puzzlefactory

Puzzlefactory

Senior Member
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One instance of VEPro per instrument works best in Logic.

Why does that work best in your opinion?

I thought about that but I figured the VEPro app on the slave would get a bit cluttered with multiple instances open on seperate pages and I figured it would be extra strain on the host CPU (although I imagine not much as all the plugin does is communicate with the slave).
 

Saxer

Senior Member
Logic tends to get CPU spikes when sending a lot of data to one instance. But if you use separate instances it's very effective. It's quite the opposite behavior than Cubase which works better with multis.
 

samphony

Senior Member
Correct. Say you have v1 and multiple articulations of it. Put it in one instance and route 2-4 stereo channels back to Logic. Use 4 channels if you want to have control over short articulation post processing in logic otherwise just route 2 channels back to Logic and be done with it. It's true if you try it with Kontakt 5 directly hosted in Logic its the same. Use Kontakt in Logic like exs24 = one track per instruments.

And to be honest if you plan to build these huge templates with all instruments on this planet then do so and put it into a folder. Build another template to with basic routings and empty tracks and use logics import function to grab instruments from that huge template and only the ones you really need.
 

A.G

Senior Member
Logic is limited to 256 Software Instruments and it is not enough for serious Orchestral templates (which is the VEPro goal). The golden key is to use Multi Timbral Instrument instances or combination of Multi and Standard Instruments. For example 256*16=4096 Instruments (Max, hosted on different machines) if you use Multies.
 

whinecellar

Jim Daneker
IME with Logic & VEP, keep it simple with routing: no aux outs from multis - just a stereo out of each. Do all your premixing in VE Pro. If you need to further treat a part separately, just bounce it in place as audio (takes mere seconds) and go to town.

As I've detailed elsewhere, my template is 1000+ tracks, almost all VE Pro multis with just stereo outs, and it runs like butter even on a MacBook Pro with 16 GB RAM thanks to a few slave machines.
 

samphony

Senior Member
IME with Logic & VEP, keep it simple with routing: no aux outs from multis - just a stereo out of each. Do all your premixing in VE Pro. If you need to further treat a part separately, just bounce it in place as audio (takes mere seconds) and go to town.

As I've detailed elsewhere, my template is 1000+ tracks, almost all VE Pro multis with just stereo outs, and it runs like butter even on a MacBook Pro with 16 GB RAM thanks to a few slave machines.

Exactly. That's what I meant!
 

Jeremy Spencer

Senior Member
IME with Logic & VEP, keep it simple with routing: no aux outs from multis - just a stereo out of each. Do all your premixing in VE Pro. If you need to further treat a part separately, just bounce it in place as audio (takes mere seconds) and go to town.

As I've detailed elsewhere, my template is 1000+ tracks, almost all VE Pro multis with just stereo outs, and it runs like butter even on a MacBook Pro with 16 GB RAM thanks to a few slave machines.

Aside from the 256 Aux maximum, does Logic run more efficiently this way?

On a side note, what is more efficient (on the slave)....loading multiple instances of a VI with one instrument loaded in each (so each would have its own channel), or multiple instruments loaded within a SINGLE instance of a VI?
 
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whinecellar

Jim Daneker
Aside from the 256 Aux maximum, does Logic run more efficiently this way?

In my experience, yes, by a LONG shot. My whole template is essentially pre-mixed in VEP across all my slaves, so I can easily get away with just stereo multi instances of VEP. Once you start adding multiple outputs and going nuts with auxes, that's when you start making things needlessly complicated, and taking a big CPU hit.

On a side note, what is more efficient (on the slave)....loading multiple instances of a VI with one instrument loaded in each (so each would have its own channel), or multiple instruments loaded within a SINGLE instance of a VI?

You'll get different answers on this, but for me, I go multi all the way: for example, a 16-channel Kontakt multi for LASS violins A, another for B & C, then the same for violas, cellos, basses, etc., and on and on with other libraries. Otherwise you'd end up with a VEP metaframe with hundreds of individual instances - I just don't see that being at all practical.

On my big PC slave, I currently have (27) 16-channel multis (either Kontakt or PLAY). That's 432 instruments loaded from all the big libraries, but with only 27 instances listed. Just scrolling up and down the list would be a nightmare if each instrument were on its own instance!
 

Jeremy Spencer

Senior Member
Jim, thanks a lot for the detailed reply. That was my suspicion with the Aux channels, it would just be nice to mix right in Logic, but I can live with mixing in VEPro.

So when you say you have a 16-channel Kontakt multi loaded, it that per instance of VEPro, or do you have multiple 16-channel instances loaded inside one VEPro instance?
 

whinecellar

Jim Daneker
Jim, thanks a lot for the detailed reply. That was my suspicion with the Aux channels, it would just be nice to mix right in Logic, but I can live with mixing in VEPro.

Sure thing. Really, I do all my mixing in Logic. Since everything in my template is orchestral, I took the time to pre-mix, balance, pan & EQ everything in VE Pro, which stays static. The trick is that I end up rendering everything as audio - often as I go - and *then* I start tweaking levels & doing automation if necessary, since each region ends up on its own dedicated track. Bounce-in-place and VEP work hand in hand for me; I essentially end up mixing & archiving as a project develops. By the time I'm ready to deliver, pretty much everything is already audio as opposed to MIDI. I hide the MIDI tracks as I go too, so I can go back and edit/refine later if need be.

So when you say you have a 16-channel Kontakt multi loaded, it that per instance of VEPro, or do you have multiple 16-channel instances loaded inside one VEPro instance?

Just one 16-channel multi of Kontakt or PLAY per VEP instance ;)
 

Shad0wLandsUK

Contemplating Composing...
I was wondering about this as well. I have ARTzID and I use Composer Tools Pro also. But wondering what the best setup for all of to work together would be for VE Pro and Logic 10.3.1

Regards :)
 

garyhiebner

Active Member
IME with Logic & VEP, keep it simple with routing: no aux outs from multis - just a stereo out of each. Do all your premixing in VE Pro. If you need to further treat a part separately, just bounce it in place as audio (takes mere seconds) and go to town.

As I've detailed elsewhere, my template is 1000+ tracks, almost all VE Pro multis with just stereo outs, and it runs like butter even on a MacBook Pro with 16 GB RAM thanks to a few slave machines.

I know you have mentioned it before here whinecellar, but what is your setup?

How many slaves are you running, and what are their specs? I've also got a Macbook with SSD and 16GB as my master, and then a Slave PC. But interested to hear how many instruments you're running in Logic. Or are they all hosted on the Slave with VEPro? Im running instruments between the two. Some in VEPro in Logic on my Mac, and then some more on the slave with VEPro. But it gets a bit messy. But interested to hear your setup.
 

Ashermusic

Senior Member
For me, my slave PC runs the EW Hollywood orchestra only, 1 instance in VE Pro per instrument with 5-16 articulations in each, addressed by 1 track in Logic Pro, triggered by the SkiSwitcher 3. In VE Pro 6 on my iMac I run Kontakt orchestral stuff only, 1 instance in VE Pro per instrument with 5-16 articulations in each or only 1 if it is a keyswitch patch, which most of them are, addressed by 1 track in Logic Pro, triggered by the SkiSwitcher 3. Instrument tracks of the same family are nested in folders. No auxes, except for hosting reverbs. No Event Inputs. No bloody Multiport layer.
All the rest is directly in Logic Pro.

I am not the workflow police so I am not going to tell anyone they must work this way. But my computers are relatively modestly powered and yet I have yet to see anyone's Logic Pro-VE Pro rig work more smoothly than mine. Also, I have helped a bunch of other composers set up their templates this way here in LA and some over Skype, some of whom are here, and almost all of them like it and stick with it.
 

whinecellar

Jim Daneker
I know you have mentioned it before here whinecellar, but what is your setup?

Main Mac = MacBook Pro 2014 Retina w/16 GB RAM
(4) SSDs in an OWC TB chassis (2 project drives, 2 samples)
(2) UA Apollos, Philips 40" 4k monitor all via TB
Running OSX 10.11.3, Logic X 10.3.1
VE Pro (32 bit) running EastWest Play for older perc libraries
VE Pro (64 bit) running (9) 16-channel Kontakt multis (144 instruments)
...mostly perc libraries, a bunch of misc. guitars & ethnic instruments

Slave 1 - www.studiocat.com turnkey VE Pro PC slave (4.16 GHz quad i7, 64 GB RAM, 4 sample SSDs)
VE Pro running (28) 16-channel multis (Kontakt, PLAY) - 448 insts total, all demanding libraries; uses about 40 GB RAM fully loaded

Slave 2 - 2009 iMac Core2Duo, 16 GB RAM
VEP running 4 x 16ch older Kontakt libraries (64 insts total)

Slave 3 - 2012 Mac Mini quad i7, 16 GB RAM
VEP running 11 x 16ch Kontakt multis (176 insts total)

Slave 4 - 2010 MacBook Pro 2.28 Core2Duo
VEP running 8 x 16ch older Kontakt libraries (128 insts total)

So, that's 976 instruments loaded across all 5 machines, all in VE Pro 16-channel instances. I also run another ~100 EXS instruments in Logic, and then any project-specific stuff like Omnisphere, Nexus, other VIs, etc. As for processing, my template contains 8-12 effects buses: mostly reverb options (Lex PCM Random Hall, 2C B2, Slate VerbSuite Bricasti, NI RC48, some custom Space Designer stuff), and of course tons of EQ, compression as needed, etc.

All runs flawlessly!
 

ontracktuts

Member
That is awesome. Thanks for the share.

And what's the reason using a Macbook as your main machine instead of an iMac or Mac Pro? Portability when needed?
 

whinecellar

Jim Daneker
That is awesome. Thanks for the share.

And what's the reason using a Macbook as your main machine instead of an iMac or Mac Pro? Portability when needed?

You're welcome! The main reasons for the MBP as main machine:

1. I've been working on a massive project for over a year, while at the same time doing a bunch of tour dates - so yeah, portability ;)

2. It's the only machine I have that can drive a big 4K display, which is an upgrade I've been wanting for years. I already had the laptop for the last few years, and I wasn't about to drop $6000 on a trash can just to drive a big display - especially given logic X' terrible GUI performance even on the fastest machines. That one issue aside, this laptop is ridiculously powerful. I still can't believe I run what I do all from that machine!!!
 

gsilbers

Part of Pulsesetter-Sounds.com
Main Mac = MacBook Pro 2014 Retina w/16 GB RAM
(4) SSDs in an OWC TB chassis (2 project drives, 2 samples)
(2) UA Apollos, Philips 40" 4k monitor all via TB
Running OSX 10.11.3, Logic X 10.3.1
VE Pro (32 bit) running EastWest Play for older perc libraries
VE Pro (64 bit) running (9) 16-channel Kontakt multis (144 instruments)
...mostly perc libraries, a bunch of misc. guitars & ethnic instruments

Slave 1 - www.studiocat.com turnkey VE Pro PC slave (4.16 GHz quad i7, 64 GB RAM, 4 sample SSDs)
VE Pro running (28) 16-channel multis (Kontakt, PLAY) - 448 insts total, all demanding libraries; uses about 40 GB RAM fully loaded

Slave 2 - 2009 iMac Core2Duo, 16 GB RAM
VEP running 4 x 16ch older Kontakt libraries (64 insts total)

Slave 3 - 2012 Mac Mini quad i7, 16 GB RAM
VEP running 11 x 16ch Kontakt multis (176 insts total)

Slave 4 - 2010 MacBook Pro 2.28 Core2Duo
VEP running 8 x 16ch older Kontakt libraries (128 insts total)

So, that's 976 instruments loaded across all 5 machines, all in VE Pro 16-channel instances. I also run another ~100 EXS instruments in Logic, and then any project-specific stuff like Omnisphere, Nexus, other VIs, etc. As for processing, my template contains 8-12 effects buses: mostly reverb options (Lex PCM Random Hall, 2C B2, Slate VerbSuite Bricasti, NI RC48, some custom Space Designer stuff), and of course tons of EQ, compression as needed, etc.

All runs flawlessly!


so hows the transfer speed between the drives and ethernet with thunderbolt?
seems you can playback a lot of stuff at the same time.
 

whinecellar

Jim Daneker
so hows the transfer speed between the drives and ethernet with thunderbolt?
seems you can playback a lot of stuff at the same time.

Well, Thunderbolt is essentially the PCIe protocol, so it's blazing fast - certainly not a bottleneck. And since recent MacBook Pros don't have ethernet, I use an Anker USB 3.0 > ethernet adapter and it's perfect. In fact, that little $15 adapter is the gateway to all my VEP slaves... kinda crazy!
 
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