VEPro 7 now available!

Discussion in 'Your DAW (Digital Audio Workstation)' started by Ben, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    Not that that it really matters, but no Metal has nothing do with the firmware. The firmware is really pretty simple and very very low level dealing with your CPU and microcodes that can effect how it performs, and the ability for the motherboard to be able to read certain file systems before OSX has loaded, and things like that. You can use the new firmware with Sierra and older OSX too.

    The firmware was updated in High Sierra mainly for APFS support, otherwise you would not be able to boot up from an APFS drive, for example.

    Later on was another firmware update that enabled NVMe drives to boot up before OSX is loaded..

    recently a security vulnerability was found related to hyper threading, so believe it or not Intel just recently announced this vulnerability and the only protection is to disable hyper threading with potential loss of performance as much as 40%. Yes you read that right. So a recent firmware update provides support to turn off hyper threading (Which I don't plan to do by the way). Other CPU oriented security vulnerabilities have sometimes had to be resolved through a firmware update.

    OSX, on the other hand, was improved in Mojave by adding many graphics oriented routines that make use of the Metal framework...its all software in OSX...such that Mojave requires a Metal card. This makes Mojave more efficient because its utilizing the GPU of your video card do some some of the desktop rendering, etc.. The Firmware is not involved there really

    here is a list of the firmware updates from the past couple years and more info about it:

    https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...requisite-to-disable-hyper-threading.2132317/
     
    kenose and Geoff Grace like this.
  2. TeamLeader

    TeamLeader Active Member

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    Thank you for all of this DEwdman. Very appreciated. With DP, are you using the special MAS VEP plugin, or AU?
     
  3. richhickey

    richhickey Member

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    Cool stuff, thanks! I'm very interested in your DP findings.
     
  4. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    I have been using the MAS plugin in DP. I want to do more tests in DP because I think I don' have the settings right there now.
     
  5. TeamLeader

    TeamLeader Active Member

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    wonderful Dewd. In the past the DP was version has been extremely efficient.
     
  6. rhye

    rhye Member

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    In light of this recent events, I wonder if Logic + VE pro could get better results using more instances with less in them.
     
  7. rhye

    rhye Member

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    I also wonder if the results are dependent on the actual sampler used. Dewdman, are you using only Vienna instruments or also Kontakt ?
     
  8. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    its worth trying, but I'm burned out on testing right now. I don't want to work that way, so its not that interesting to me. I would expect performance to be slightly worse frankly, but it would be interesting to have as a comparison. It would take a lot of work for me to setup that test though, so might not happen.
     
  9. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    Of course you should not consider my results to be the same results that someone else might get using a different sampler or instruments, plugins, etc.. Its all relative. I used the same exact tracks with instruments in order to compare Logic vs Cubase vs DP and to compare with-VEP vs without. You could of course try to replicate the test using Kontakt instead of VIPro, but I would expect similar results, relatively speaking...but might be higher or lower CPU depending on the track count, which plugins, machine you're running on, etc. But still the relative differences between these hosts should be fairly consistent, but of course, no way to know without trying it. But I will leave that to someone else.
     
  10. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    Then is the driver for the card part of High Sierra?
     
  11. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    The driver for the card has existed in OSX since before High Sierra. works in Sierra too. However, the driver does NOT have to always be using Metal. The card is capable of Metal when asked by the operating system or apps. In Mojave, its now being asked by OSX to use Metal enough so that Apple decided to make it a requirement that a metal card is needed for Mojave.
     
  12. Nick Batzdorf

    Nick Batzdorf Moderator

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    That would make sense, since the RX460 works in earlier versions (I know because I had one briefly).

    But I also know from reading reports of failed Mojave updates that you *must update your 5,1 to High Sierra with the original card installed* first. Apple spells that out very clearly on their site; there's something in there that it needs.

    To me it makes sense that it's in the firmware, but you say no.
     
  13. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    The main reason for needing your original vid card was because the RX vid cards still do not have a mac boot screen. Not then and not now. Once OSX loads, then the video drivers are there, but you can't get to the really low level boot screen with the RX video cards. You can get to recovery mode, which has access to OSX drivers and utilities of course. In any case, the older firmware updates required you to be able to get to a low level boot screen in order to apply the firmware update. So that is why you had to put in the old original video card that actually has the mac boot rom code in it to see that boot screen. Some other Nvidia cards had the ability to be custom flashed with a mac boot room, you an still find them and buy them, but the RX series currently does not have that capability.

    In any case the High Sierra updater had some dependency on that old firmware updater, which required the boot screen. That's why you needed your old card to install High Sierra.

    With Mojave, Apple made the firmware updater smarter in that it can apply the built in firmware update without requiring you to see the boot screen. You still do not see any mac boot screen...OSX has to load up enough first before you see the white screen with Apple on it..that is not the boot screen..that is OSX with OSX drivers. but its just that from Mojave forwards, Apple firmware updates are done better so that you don't actually NEED to see the mac boot screen...but its entirely possible at some point in the future there might be some need to get to that boot screen, so keep your old video card around just in case.

    The link I posted above and many other sources on the internet have a lot more information on this topic.
     
    Nick Batzdorf likes this.
  14. DANIELE

    DANIELE Active Member

    I'm having another problem with VEP7.

    If I put a note on the play cursor and I hit play I'll never hear that note, it doesn't play the first note. With some instruments like Infinite Brass the first note plays instead. Do you know what kind of problem should be?
     
  15. jonesdip

    jonesdip New Member

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    Newbie question. I have VEPro 6 currently installed on one PC. I just bought VEPro 7. This is the first time to upgrade. Is installation as simple as running the installer? Does the installer automatically remove VEPro 6 from my PC? Is there some sort of guide somewhere? Sorry to butt into this very informative and technical thread with such a simple question but as a VSL newbie I'd appreciate the help. Thanks in advance.
     
  16. azeteg

    azeteg Active Member

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    You can install VEP7 right over VEP6 without problems. Going from VEP7 back to VEP6, I would recommend uninstalling VEP7 first, then installing VEP6
     
  17. azeteg

    azeteg Active Member

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    Just to clarify: in this screenshot you are showing both apps open at once, and you are also measuring total system CPU usage. This will of course increase the GUI CPU usage, but it should not impact the real-time thread performance. I think the values yo are seeing for VEP+Logic will go down quite a bit if you close the VEP GUI. Otherwise, it could be that you are just measuring the load created by the extra GUI activity on screen. iostat will not measure time critical threads only, which is what matters for actual audio performance.
     
  18. jonesdip

    jonesdip New Member

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    Many thanks - it's appreciated.
     
  19. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

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    Under Mojave the hit you describe is less significant but it’s a good point I will try that tonight, though having both guis open is kind of important. Most people are going to be working with both guis open. The point of this test was not to isolate dsp performance but to simply compare a real world situation between the three daws with and without vep.

    Cubase actually runs significantly better with vep then without. Dp is about the same either way. Logicpro alone is more efficient.

    As I said there are still workflow advantages to using vep with Logic Pro, it’s not all about saving cpu cycles
     
  20. azeteg

    azeteg Active Member

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    I completely agree - except that the GUI will just get a bit slower if the audio threads need more juice. GUI performance might increase system CPU usage, but really shouldn't impact the audio performance.
     

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