What's new

VEPro 7 now available!

whinecellar

Jim Daneker
What's your DAW and OS? If it's not Reaper and is Windows, I'd say definitely jump straight to 7. I think a lot of Mac users are happy, but from what I can tell there's more problems at the moment on Mac still. I think the VSL folks are still working on Reaper issues.
Mojave (10.14.4) and Logic 10.4.4 on my main machine, various Mac OS on all my slaves except Win10 Pro on one PC. And the only stuff I run in VEP is Kontakt and Play libraries...
 

Nick Batzdorf

Moderator
Moderator
Mojave (10.14.4) and Logic 10.4.4 on my main machine, various Mac OS on all my slaves except Win10 Pro on one PC. And the only stuff I run in VEP is Kontakt and Play libraries...
You'll be fine.

Now, your other issues - it was you, right? - are probably network-related.
 

Craig Allen

New Member
To clarify this a little further, Cubase is relevant because it is the reason you might need two USB dongles even though you are only running the VEP server on one slave machine. One dongle for Cubase on your DAW machine and a second for VEP on the slave.
Ah, that helps me.
So, in one scenario I would have my Cubase dongle-1 for Cubase on my Mac, and the Vienna dongle-2 for a slave PC running the VEPro Server.
But then if I decide to run Cubase and VEPro only from one machine (let's say my PC), do I then need BOTH dongles attached to the same PC? Or can both the Cubase and VEPro licenses reside on both dongles to aid my flexibility usage -- as long as I'm a single user -- so I only need to use 1 dongle at a time?
 

rrichard63

Perpetual Novice
... do I then need BOTH dongles attached to the same PC? Or can both the Cubase and VEPro licenses reside on both dongles ...
If your DAW machine is also your VEP server, then your Cubase and VSL licenses can live on the same dongle. You would only need one dongle. But any given VSL license can only be assigned to one dongle. I don't know about Steinberg products. It's possible that one Cubase license can live on multiple dongles. But I doubt it.

iLok allows developers to configure their licenses to work on multiple dongles or CPUs -- up to three, I think -- and many developers do so.
 

nas

Active Member
Mojave (10.14.4) and Logic 10.4.4 on my main machine, various Mac OS on all my slaves except Win10 Pro on one PC. And the only stuff I run in VEP is Kontakt and Play libraries...
I'm on VEP 6 running Kontakt and Play on my PC slave w/ Window 7. It has been rock solid and so I've decided to hold off on VEP 7 until a few more updates and the dust really settles... no rush since VEP 6 has been performing flawlessly. BTW I should mentioned that I ket getting disconnection issues and rather unstable performance in VEP 5 so 6 was really a welcomed upgrade for me.
 

whinecellar

Jim Daneker
That's fine, but I'm telling you: the dust really has settled.
Since I'm having to redo a handful of things with a new system, I'm tempted to try 7 if only for the vertical instance list (already missing that nice overview from 5), but I just got 6 up and running, and so far so good. If I have trouble with 7, I assume it's just a matter of uninstalling and then reinstalling 6? I also keep a backup of all related pref files, so I would restore those as well if need be...
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
If I have trouble with 7, I assume it's just a matter of uninstalling and then reinstalling 6? I also keep a backup of all related pref files, so I would restore those as well if need be...
More or less. When I rolled back (both times), some things got kind of broken with elicenser, but I basically just did a complete uninstall of that, and manually removed all cache and pref files I could find related to VSL or elicenser, reinstalled, rebooted and eventually got it all working again, it was not painless, but doable. Your dongle will have both licenses on it. One thing to watch out for if you roll back is that the application file name of the VEP server changed in VEP7 to not have "(64 bit)" in the name of the 64 bit server application. After i rolled back I was having some problems when I kept trying to launch VEP from the dockbar and I was inadvertently launching the 32bit version and didn't know it. I would try to load my 64bit frame files and it would crash while loading and I was perplexed for a while, but eventually figured that out.

I actually don't like the vertical instance list, prefer them across the top. But I don't use many instances either. I don't really like the articulation display either, which is not optional, I wish it was. The included FX are definitely nice, mainly because of the presets and if and when I get back to using VEP7 I will definitely try to make use of them, though I have a lot of nice FX already. The Plugin manager is leaps better then before and doesn't crash VEP7 while scanning all my hundreds of plugins, VEP6 would crash 5-10 times while doing that. However a few plugins don't pass from Arturia and a few others that passed before but don't know.

VEP7 performs significantly worse on my Sierra based 5,1 machine then VEP6, I have been interacting with VSL engineers for the past week to see if we can figure out a solution. I will report more findings on that after we have had a chance to try everything we can. Suffice it to say for now that in some circumstances, the GUI itself is grinding the CPU more than VEP6 and doubly so when HiDPI display modes are in effect. This appears to not be the case for some users, particularly I haven't heard any complaints from windows users yet, but a few from mac users. The main engineer I'm working with has a newer CPU and OS X version and does not experience the same performance hit in VEP7 that I am. So it might be fine for you as appears to be the case for some mac users. In my case, its adding 10-20% more to the average CPU load, which is quite significant and a deal breaker until it can be solved in some way other then me buying a new computer.
 

Nick Batzdorf

Moderator
Moderator
This appears to not be the case for some users, particularly
Not for me on my Mojave 5,1. I have my second monitor running at 1080p HiDPI (as we discussed at great length), so there has to be more to the story.

It's also fine on my Windows 7 machine, which I use over Microsoft Remote Desktop.

The only issue I have is that when it checks for updates on my Windows machine and I tell it to go ahead, it downloads the update somewhere I can't find it and doesn't do it, so I have to do that manually.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
It may turn out that Mojave is a requirement to get performance equal or better then vep6 but we are still trying things and I will report more when i know more.
 

whinecellar

Jim Daneker
...The only issue I have is that when (VEP) checks for updates on my Windows machine and I tell it to go ahead, it downloads the update somewhere I can't find it and doesn't do it, so I have to do that manually.
Yeah, that’s happening for me on my Mac and Win10Pro machines as well, both running the latest versions of VEP 6. Weird.

@Dewdman42 - thanks again for your write-up of the issues you’ve experienced. I too am tempted to think it’s related to running an older OS on older hardware... hope you get it sorted out. I just bit the bullet on a new top-end MacBook Pro with a Vega 20 video card running Mojave, and while it has been quite a frustrating transition (the new T2 chip is an idiot), it is a smoking rig once everything gets working. VEP 6 is blowing me away so far!
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Just to be clear, vep6 runs much better on my old macpro and “old” OS. Something in the vep7 update doesn’t like it. For now. I am in the process of trying to setup a Mojave test situation but it’s very time consuming and apparently my Lynx card doesn't like Mojave yet and that will have to be resolved. Also VSL is looking at a couple things in their code to see if it can be rectified without requiring the OS upgrade. It’s also entirely possible that vep7 is now doing something that the 5,1 Xeon x5680 cpu isn’t good at, which of course I can’t do anything about but VSL is also looking into that too.

Also I want to be clear, vep7 does run and mostly seems fine. When I first started using it I was impressed. After a while I started noticing that whenever I minimize and un-minimize the app window; the cpu jumps up and down along with that much more than I remember in vep6. That doesn’t mean vep7 wasn’t running in a way that might seem fine on its own. So then I set out to do some very methodical performance testing using an exactly comparable situation between both vep6 and vep7 and have done that several times now with some further test builds and instructions from VSL, always with the same repeatable results that vep7 is incurring 10-20% more cpu then vep6 when the app window is open and even more if the display is a retina monitor in retina mode.

Regarding whether or not you should try it now has also to do with stability. While there have been reports on here of no problems from some people, there have been some people with problems. Last week there were several updates to vep7 and vep6 as people reported problems; and VSL is very actively trying to resolve them now. One bug related to pdc that I reported was fixed within 48 hours! Kudos to VSL for being on it. All I’m saying is that if you need to work, you might wanna wait a week or two. In my opinion the dust has not settled yet.

On the other hand if you are the kind of person that likes to get your teeth dirty breathing dust on a new release then why not?
 
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agarner32

Active Member
On the other hand if you are the kind of person that likes to get your teeth dirty breathing dust on a new release then why not?
I'm happy to report I got my teeth "dirty breathing dust" and all is well with the latest version of VEP7. I haven't encountered any problems opening up a VEP6 template. I have an iMac (2019) and a PC slave running Windows 10.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Alright. I have spent most of the weekend getting Mojave up and going. still a few things that are broken under Mojave on my system...which might never work again, but that's another story, overall I do have to say Mojave seems very smooth and a GeekBench test between Sierra and Mojave showed a 20% improvement in cpu performance, so there is that...

Now...as to VEP6, VEP7, OSX versions on 5,1 MacPro...etc...

with Mojave on my 5,1 MacPro, VEP7 is performing, not only just as well as VEP6, its actually performing significantly better! I have created a small spreadsheet with the results I did in various configurations, expressed as average CPU usage with a test project provided from VSL:


At this point I have to strongly recommend that anyone wishing to upgrade to VEP7 on a mac should strongly consider upgrading OSX to Mojave. Note that the above was using a private beta build v7.0.826, which is not yet available for download, but I'm sure will be in the next day or two. It does have some improvements that were discovered this week while working through this issue with VSL. So I will also highly recommend that all VEP7 users on Mojave update to that when its out.

I am happy to answer any questions anyone has about the above testing that was done.

For those of you stuck on Sierra and probably High Sierra, my recommendation is to think about upgrading to Mojave if you are serious about using VEP and especially VEP7. I think under Sierra, VEP6 is currently still a better choice due to performance, but the best choice is really Mojave and VEP7 according to my test results which were done very methodically.
 
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Dewdman42

Senior Member
I am also pleased to report some good news for Cubase mac users. The performance with Cubase+VEP is still not as good as with LogicPro. By a factor of of around 2x actually. Its pretty significant. The interesting thing is that the Activity Monitor shows VEP7 as the process using all the CPU cycles; not Cubase, which is just playing midi tracks in my test. I don't know why VEP7 would need so much CPU to process tracks from Cubase vs tracks from LogicPro, but could be related in some way to the VST3 plugin vs the AU plugin. The VST3 plugin is using many midi ports and in my test the multiport macro is being used with the AU plugin to feed the same single-instance with 100 channels of VSL instruments and MirPro. This could be an area for VSL to look a little deeper.

In any case, notwithstanding, I am able to playback a 100 track project with VSL instruments and MirPro, something I am not able to do at all using Cubase alone, Cubase alone (on my mac), starts running out of CPU above 50 tracks and just craps out the audio halfway through. Same tracks played through VEP are able to play the whole project without glitch, though double the average CPU usage compared to LogicPro, at least it works much better then using Cubase alone!
 

kenose

New Member
Yeah I’ve noticed the same performance with VEP/Cubase on Mac. With ~35 instances in a rather large ~2500+ track Cubase template the whole thing idles at around 40% CPU usage, with each instance displaying 6-10% usage with all the channels disabled. Right now I just keep all the VEPro racks in Cubase disabled and enable them as neccessary. I haven’t built a similar size template in Logic, but instances connected to Logic tend to display a lower CPU usage when idle.
 

azeteg

Active Member
Regarding performance with Cubase/Logic and VEP on Mac - Logic is definitely the better choice. However, ensure that you are doing an equal comparison. Logic tracks in playback mode uses the "process buffer range" setting, which is equivalent to "asio guard" in Cubase. This will use a larger buffer size to be used for the non-armed tracks, which will lower CPU usage. Unfortunately using asio guard in Cubase will cause a long pause in audio when delay compensation needs to be recalculated. Logic does not have this issue.
 

Cat

Active Member
Regarding the Upgrade pricing: from the VSL's website it looks like the upgrade price (from VEP6 to VEP7) and the additional license price don't have a deadline (like the main license's full price does, until May 23). Am I correct?
 
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