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VEPro 7 now available!

fixxer49

Bouncing Consultant
Here are 2 videos I've just recorded and will send them off to the VSL team along with the project files.

VEP 6 project loading time

VEP 7 project loading time

It's the exact same template. doing it this way with disabled tracks gave me the best performance since PLAY uses 1 core / 1 thread per instance. Then in Reaper, I've got a key command / button to enable / disable each track / instances by using MIDI cc 19 on channel 1.
do you actually use this template (800+ instances?), or is it purpose-built to stress-test?
 

Audio Birdi

Active Member
do you actually use this template (800+ instances?), or is it purpose-built to stress-test?
I do use it this way yes, the performance is better this way compared to having fewer instances with more channels I’ve found. I’ve made several template layouts and for the overall CPU usage, this was genuinely the most efficient way compared to fewer instance
 

EgM

Game music!
I've always used one instance per instrument myself, the only instances I use with multiple instruments are ones such as Hollywood Strings where I switch articulations using midi channels. Never ran into performance problems, plus you get access to a dedicated audio track stem.
 

fixxer49

Bouncing Consultant
I do use it this way yes, the performance is better this way compared to having fewer instances with more channels I’ve found. I’ve made several template layouts and for the overall CPU usage, this was genuinely the most efficient way compared to fewer instance
I've always used one instance per instrument myself, the only instances I use with multiple instruments are ones such as Hollywood Strings where I switch articulations using midi channels. Never ran into performance problems, plus you get access to a dedicated audio track stem.
i am quite surprised at this set up (and the reported efficiencies - i would have predicted the opposite.) @EgM + @Audio Birdi, are you both on reaper?
 

DANIELE

Active Member
My problem is different, maybe I could try to play with settings but I doubt it will solve the issue.

This evening I'll try to test the project on a blank one in Reaper and see if the problem persist or it is only present when I use my Reaper template.

I'll try to play with thread settings in VEP.

Other than this I don't now what to do.
Still no answer in the vsl forum.
 

Simon Ravn

Senior Member
I do use it this way yes, the performance is better this way compared to having fewer instances with more channels I’ve found. I’ve made several template layouts and for the overall CPU usage, this was genuinely the most efficient way compared to fewer instance
It might be more efficient, CPU wise, but I would imagine it is hell organizing this in VEP. And connecting/deconnecting to 800 instances must take a long time also. Certainly I wouldn't be able to keep an overview in such a setup, but by all means, if you think it rocks, go for it :) I'd rather keep it nice and tidy and lose a couple of % CPU:) And memory usage must be higher this way as well.
 

DANIELE

Active Member
As you've got no response there, send support an email referencing the forum thread.
Yes, I'll do it but first I would like to do some more tests. At least to understand what is the cause.

I noticed that VEP (last update) keep crashing my Logitech Gaming Software (which I use for mouse profiles like Reaper one). I don't know what VEP is doing but it is pretty strange.

I also tried to open a blank project on Reaper and load the one I'm building on VEP. Everything seems to work smooth, the VST3 version is slow as hell instead, the same as in the template.

Maybe there is something that in Reaper template conflict with VEP but every track it is offline so I don't understand what's happening.
 

Audio Birdi

Active Member
Yes, I'll do it but first I would like to do some more tests. At least to understand what is the cause.

I noticed that VEP (last update) keep crashing my Logitech Gaming Software (which I use for mouse profiles like Reaper one). I don't know what VEP is doing but it is pretty strange.

I also tried to open a blank project on Reaper and load the one I'm building on VEP. Everything seems to work smooth, the VST3 version is slow as hell instead, the same as in the template.

Maybe there is something that in Reaper template conflict with VEP but every track it is offline so I don't understand what's happening.
Getting the same issue with the VST3 version inside Reaper too. VST version works fine strangely. May just switch them all out since you're able to run vst's outside of Reaper too, which can help for plugin crashes.
 

azeteg

Active Member
Getting the same issue with the VST3 version inside Reaper too. VST version works fine strangely. May just switch them all out since you're able to run vst's outside of Reaper too, which can help for plugin crashes.
Thanks for reporting! We'll be looking into the issue with Reaper asap.
 

DANIELE

Active Member
Thanks for reporting! We'll be looking into the issue with Reaper asap.
Sorry if I keep writing but maybe this could help other users or you guys to find the issues and fix them.

Further testing shows me that if I go to start audio engine everything goes to work again, till the next connection where it loose everything again. So I need to click on the audio engine button everytime.

Another thing I noticed is that when I put the play cursor perfectly aligned with a note (quantized with the grid) the note doesn't play, I always have to put the play cursor before the note to hear a sound.

It doesn't happen with an instance of Kontakt loaded directly in Reaper....

Uff...to much issues...I think you guys need a lot more testing in Reaper, please look at all this.
 

Grizzlymv

Active Member
It might be more efficient, CPU wise, but I would imagine it is hell organizing this in VEP. And connecting/deconnecting to 800 instances must take a long time also.
This! Loading the Cubase project must take a while?

I played around the automation and it's quite an improvement. It makes me question what's the best approach for the template though.

To make it easy to use with a controller/touchpad it sounds like an instance per track is the way to go (that way the control could always be the 1st one of the selected track for instance). BUT, that's why @Simon Ravn comment surprised me as I always thought that it would not be the way to go CPU wise since your cores are now spread accross so many different instances.

Going with Folders or Channels disabling within an active Instance will probably accelerate the CPR loading time, and might be more efficient CPU wise since all the core are spread accross a limited amount of instances. But it make the control through a UI much more complex as each channel or folder would require it's own dedicated control.

So for those who use Cubase and VEP together with large template, what would you recommend?

Not sure if I'm clear with my explanations though... :P
 
OP
Ben

Ben

Active Member
To make it easy to use with a controller/touchpad it sounds like an instance per track is the way to go (that way the control could always be the 1st one of the selected track for instance). BUT, that's why @Simon Ravn comment surprised me as I always thought that it would not be the way to go CPU wise since your cores are now spread accross so many different instances.

Going with Folders or Channels disabling within an active Instance will probably accelerate the CPR loading time, and might be more efficient CPU wise since all the core are spread accross a limited amount of instances.
So for those who use Cubase and VEP together with large template, what would you recommend?
Performance
This is theoretical, so your experience may differ: In theory as few instances as possible will give you the best performance, because VEP can manage and balance the load better. Keep in mind that you may have to alter the thread-count per instance. The more instances -> the less cores you should use. I have six cores and around 4-10 instances, the per instance thread count is set to 4 and everything works fine for me. If you have only 4 cores you should choose 2 cores per instance, if you have more cores choose a higher one.
In all players you use inside of VEP you should disable all multi-threading settings / multi-core settings to prevent resource conflicts between the player instances and VEP. Vienna Instruments has this setting as well as Kontakt. For the other players I have no idea, so read the manual for these.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
In my view that is the principle reason to use as few instances as possible, 1 if possible because of the way VEP is configured, you have to specify how many threads to use per instance, and it all needs to add up to no more than 2 threads per core on the system, plus leave a few threads for your DAW too! So for a 6 core machine I'd probably say 10 threads for VEP total. If you have 5 instances, that is 2 threads per instance. Right?

Problem with that is that if have any instances that are inactive at any particular period of time, then the active ones are still only configured for the 2 threads each and so for that period of time they are under utilizing cores. Whereas if you have a single instance, you can say 10 threads per instance and VEP will not be under utilizing cores pretty much ever.

its too bad VEP didn't manage the number of threads per instance automatically.. It would be better if we could simply say how many threads we want VEP overall to use and let VEP manage which instances are forking threads on its own. But unfortunately, for now...its not configured like that, so multi-instance setups create a lot of possibilities of under-utilized cores...except when all instances are playing back at the same time fairly even amounts of stuff, then it probably doesn't matter, they will all be waiting their turn for threads.
 

TintoL

Active Member
Hi all...

Just updated to VEP 7. My slave single massive instance loads fine. But, once all is loaded, the UI is dead frozen. Weird thing is that Kontakt works fine in the vep instance. But all buttons of the VEP 7 UI are all dead. And, even weirder is that if you select the VEP mixer and track windows, you can move them around inside VEP UI, but, no buttons work.

If any of you have seen this, I would appreciate any help.

My slave is running on windows 7.

Kontakt 5, latest update. And only kontakt instruments in the instance.

I am kind of getting tired of dealing with the second computer. I wish I could simply jump to a single computer setup. If this improvements of loading and unloading instances is good enough and I can live without having all loaded, I think I will ditch the slave....
 

TintoL

Active Member
Hi all...

Just updated to VEP 7. My slave single massive instance loads fine. But, once all is loaded, the UI is dead frozen. Weird thing is that Kontakt works fine in the vep instance. But all buttons of the VEP 7 UI are all dead. And, even weirder is that if you select the VEP mixer and track windows, you can move them around inside VEP UI, but, no buttons work.

If any of you have seen this, I would appreciate any help.

My slave is running on windows 7.

Kontakt 5, latest update. And only kontakt instruments in the instance.

I am kind of getting tired of dealing with the second computer. I wish I could simply jump to a single computer setup. If this improvements of loading and unloading instances is good enough and I can live without having all loaded, I think I will ditch the slave....

OK, I figure it out. My instance was "unsnapped from the UI". This was making the VEP instace UI to not work. I snapped it back to the server window and it worked. It might be a bug in VEP 7.
 
OP
Ben

Ben

Active Member
OK, I figure it out. My instance was "unsnapped from the UI". This was making the VEP instace UI to not work. I snapped it back to the server window and it worked. It might be a bug in VEP 7.
Glad to hear you found a workaround! Please report this to [email protected]
The more information about the problem and your system / configuration you provide, the faster they can fix this.
 

TintoL

Active Member
Glad to hear you found a workaround! Please report this to [email protected]
The more information about the problem and your system / configuration you provide, the faster they can fix this.

NO PROBLEM.... I will make a report....

By the way it behave like that both in win 10 and win 7.
 
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