Menu
What's new
By:
Filters

USB 3.1 and going laptop for good

V

vicontrolu

Senior Member
So, i have been composing for a while and my template has been growing on older libraries: cinesamples, symphobias, etc. Its likely that i use Omnisphere here adn there, but if i use it on many tracks its usually not on orchestral projects. Bottom line: i dont need much in terms of CPU power or RAM

So now i need to change my system (its REALLY old) and i was looking at the huge improvement in transfer rates from usb3 to usb3.1, which really got me thinking "can i get by just with a good laptop?". I mean there are laptops (i am looking at Windows only) with 32GB RAM, intel quadcores with clocks up to 4Ghz, 1TB SSDs..this is powereful enough to do what i do..at least a desktop PC with these specs would do for sure. Just plug in a big wide monitor and up we go.

The only bottleneck i can see is voice count on orchestral projects, but with USB3.1 i could plug 2 or 3 drives to split the load if i run into problems, couldnt i? In any case, for orchestral projects on a laptop i would be willing to invest on the infinte series and that prolem would be solved.


Allright so have any of you jumped into this lately? Is there any problem i fail to foresee?
Click to read more...
 
Hi :)

I went down the laptop route about five or six years ago.

One thing that may be worth mentioning is that I ditched the optical drive in favour of a second SSD.

I should say, however, that I never used it for the sort of library stuff peeps are doing here so can't comment on that.

And since updating my studio I went back to desktop only because I was limited very much on budget this time round. If I could have afforded it I would definitely of gone for a laptop. I loved the idea of being fully mobile, setting my studio up anywhere I pleased and not being stuck in the same old room.


cheers

andy
 
I just did a 3 days session with the RME Madiface and an external SSD, both connected in USB 3 to a 3-year old laptop (Lenovo Thinkpad P70 - the cheaper version with lowest specs) running Reaper under Win10. We recorded and played 20 tracks simultaneously, did some overdub, and didn't encounter any issue at all.

As a matter of fact it achieved shorter latency than my studio's tower - which only tells I should configure that tower better ;)
 
THanks for the replies!

It's not going to be a recording gig, but just a computer for composing. I guess read access when using multiple libraries simultaneously in kontakt with DFD has a different impact than purely recording/playing tracks.

Regarding CPUs..how do.laptops behave in terms of cooling, when you are pushing them? I guess it will totally depend on the brand/model?

Which leads me to the inevitable question: can anyone recommend any specific model with the specs listed above (basically a powerful windows laptop with 32gb ram)?
 
vicontrolu said:
THanks for the replies!

It's not going to be a recording gig, but just a computer for composing. I guess read access when using multiple libraries simultaneously in kontakt with DFD has a different impact than purely recording/playing tracks.

Regarding CPUs..how do.laptops behave in terms of cooling, when you are pushing them? I guess it will totally depend on the brand/model?

Which leads me to the inevitable question: can anyone recommend any specific model with the specs listed above (basically a powerful windows laptop with 32gb ram)?
Click to expand...

I'm very happy with the Lenovo Thinkpad P70. It's an anti-glare 17-inch, but there's also a 15-inch version called the Thinkpad P50. Don't forget the Thinkpad in the name because just P70 is an entirely different product. Oh, and I think they just replaced it with a newer one called the Thinkpad P71.

Its price can vary widely, from $2000 to $8000, depending on the specs. I bought the cheapest one (it's got a 4x 2.6 GHz CPU), added more RAM and replaced the hard drive with an M2 SSD. The reason why I didn't go for a bigger version is that I didn't want to pay for an expensive GPU I would never use.

It's well ventilated, but as with ANY laptop, you should make sure never to block any ventilation slit. That means: don't use it on a bed without a rigid surface under it. Also, blow some compressed air in the vents twice a year. The reason why laptops burn up is improper ventilation. Here, you have many vents, two fans, and the fans are large, hence not too noisy (smaller fans have to spin faster). Anyway, fan speed depends on CPU usage, so the harder it works, the noisier it gets. What is nice with this model is that the fans spin down litterally as soon as you relieve the CPU.

(I try not to use mine in direct sunlight: since it's black plastick, sun rays heat it up very quickly. On very hot days, I like to place it in a cool air flow, or at least just an air flow, like in front of a desktop fan, maybe. This is rare because Belgium is not exactly a hot country.)

It's amazing how much room you have inside: 2 M2 slots, 2 Sata slots, 1 optical drive, 2 wireless slots (for wi-fi + 4g, for example), 2 RAM slots in addition to the fixed onboard RAM, ... Externally, it has plenty of connectors (4xUSB3), an expresscard slot... And some extra stuff I don't even recognize.

I've expanded mine to 40Gb (8Gb soldered from factory + 2x 16Gb expansion), but I suppose you could go higher.

It's solid, hence quite bulky and heavy (no substitute for an ipad ;)), but nothing a backpack can't handle. It's also splash-proof (I've used mine under light rain, but that's only because I'm crazy - I don't recommend it, seriously)

Driver wise, it's very stable under Windows 10. Picture quality, if you care about that, is beautiful, and professional enough for occasional image work. Battery life is amazing and charging is very quick.

I have only two complaints about it:
- It has an NVidia GPU, known to cause incompatibility issues with some hardware - espacially the A&H Qu-series, and that's a shame. But it works fine with RME stuff, which is what I mostly use. (ATI GPUs can present such issues too, but have better reputation overall.)
- The onboard speakers and phone jack are a bit too quiet. This seems to afflict all Lenovo products.

Before that, I had a Dell Precision Something-or-other. Quite bulky too, quite good too, with just less pleasant a display - but it was years ago, when laptop displays weren't as good as now. I would still have it if it were better supported by Linux (I do everything that is not music under Linux, with a dual boot).

Before that, I had a 2015 Macbook Pro, and it was crap.

Before that, I had a 2005 Macbook Pro, and it was great.

Before that, I had a lame HP Pavilion - but all laptops were lame back then.
 
Last edited:
Ashermusic said:
In my view:

People who buy laptops instead of desktops when they don't absolutely need the portability are suckers. They are paying more for less power, less max RAM, (and less screen real estate if the desktop has a built-in monitor, like an iMac.)
Click to expand...

I would agree. Unless you want a Mac: there is no desktop computer with power equivalent to an MBP. The iMac is less powerful, and the trashcans are too expensive. Among PC, oth, you get that choice.
 
Fredeke said:
I would agree. Unless you want a Mac: there is no desktop computer with power equivalent to an MBP. The iMac is less powerful, and the trashcans are too expensive. Among PC, oth, you get that choice.
Click to expand...

Factually wrong. A 2019 iMac 27" has a 3.6 GHz Intel Core i9-9900K while the MacBook Pro has a 2.4 GHz Intel Core i9-9800K. The iMac can have up to 128 GB as opposed to 16 GB in the MacBook Pro. And the very expensive iMac Pro is even more powerful.
 
Ashermusic said:
Factually wrong. A 2019 iMac 27" has a 3.6 GHz Intel Core i9-9900K while the MacBook Pro has a 2.4 GHz Intel Core i9-9800K. The iMac can have up to 128 GB as opposed to 16 GB in the MacBook Pro. And the very expensive iMac Pro is even more powerful.
Click to expand...
I stand corrected. My "analysis" was dating from 2015. There was no imac pro then (was there?)
 
Laptops are nice if you want portability. But I've run into problems with my USB ports lately between the dongles and SSDs. I can plug in a 10 port hub, but the computer can't handle all the ports. The problem with buying a lot of smaller SSDs instead of a larger one (4 1TB cost less than 1 4TB type of thing). I don't have this problem on my desktop.

That said, my Lenovo Flex lets me have an m.2 drive and a second drive in a very lightweight package. But it only has 16 GB RAM. Depending on the type of music you do, this may be enough.
 
vicontrolu said:
It's not going to be a recording gig, but just a computer for composing. I guess read access when using multiple libraries simultaneously in kontakt with DFD has a different impact than purely recording/playing tracks.

Regarding CPUs..how do.laptops behave in terms of cooling, when you are pushing them? I guess it will totally depend on the brand/model?
Click to expand...
Two answer these 2 questions specifically:

- yes DFD taxes the SSD in a very different way than recording and playback. One sampler track may pump much more than a recorded track from the SSD - as many times as the polyphony count, at the very least.

Of course, SSDs (like most supports) read faster than they write, so at least there's that.
And you have different qualities in SSDs.

Also, silences between notes can help the cache to catch its breath, while in the case of a recording, reading zeroes takes as much time as reading anything.

These are the theoretical considerations, but alas, I have no personal experience from which to give you a definite answer.

- Some laptops adjust fan speed according to temperature, others to CPU load. The former (should) guarantee cooling when effectively needed. In practice their fan's response seems to "lag" compared actual CPU load. The latter are easier to instantly shut up: just lower CPU load and they go quiet on the spot. But they could overheat if you don't treat them well (like keeping them in direct sunlight).

The more compact the more a laptop might heat up (less room for air flow). Metal chassis should dissipate heat better than plastic ones.

Again, this is purely theoretical, and some brands are just more ingenious at cooling than others. (Apple, for example, have concieved their vents as to be virtually unobstructable.)

Anyway the golden rule is: always keep the vents clean and unobstructed.

dzilizzi said:
Laptops are nice if you want portability. But I've run into problems with my USB ports lately between the dongles and SSDs. I can plug in a 10 port hub, but the computer can't handle all the ports. The problem with buying a lot of smaller SSDs instead of a larger one (4 1TB cost less than 1 4TB type of thing). I don't have this problem on my desktop.
Click to expand...
Indeed, USB hubs cause problems, for different reasons. Suffices to say they're unreliable. You should pick a laptop with lots of ports.
And yes, even without hub, USB isn't as reliable as SATA or PCIe. Even though it's possible to work well with USB, it's always better to place the SSD inside the computer if you can.
 
Last edited:
Ashermusic said:
The iMac can have up to 128 GB as opposed to 16 GB in the MacBook Pro.
Click to expand...

You can get 32GB on the Mac Book now (finally). I personally like having the laptop, I don't like the idea of the "built-in" screen of an iMac, it doesn't suit my setup as I prefer different sized monitors. All personal preference.
 
Wolfie2112 said:
You can get 32GB on the Mac Book now (finally). I personally like having the laptop, I don't like the idea of the "built-in" screen of an iMac, it doesn't suit my setup as I prefer different sized monitors. All personal preference.
Click to expand...

Well even then, the Mac Mini givers you more bang for buck. A lot of people say they "like having a laptop" but seldom can give you a reason why, other than portability, which again, if you need, you need. But many who "like" it, do not.

But hey, if you like paying more and getting less, who am I to quarrel? :)
 
Fredeke said:
I'm very happy with the Lenovo Thinkpad P70. It's an anti-glare 17-inch, but there's also a 15-inch version called the Thinkpad P50. Don't forget the Thinkpad in the name because just P70 is an entirely different product. Oh, and I think they just replaced it with a newer one called the Thinkpad P71.

Its price can vary widely, from $2000 to $8000, depending on the specs. I bought the cheapest one (it's got a 4x 2.6 GHz CPU), added more RAM and replaced the hard drive with an M2 SSD. The reason why I didn't go for a bigger version is that I didn't want to pay for an expensive GPU I would never use.

It's well ventilated, but as with ANY laptop, you should make sure never to block any ventilation slit. That means: don't use it on a bed without a rigid surface under it. Also, blow some compressed air in the vents twice a year. The reason why laptops burn up is improper ventilation. Here, you have many vents, two fans, and the fans are large, hence not too noisy (smaller fans have to spin faster). Anyway, fan speed depends on CPU usage, so the harder it works, the noisier it gets. What is nice with this model is that the fans spin down litterally as soon as you relieve the CPU.

(I try not to use mine in direct sunlight: since it's black plastick, sun rays heat it up very quickly. On very hot days, I like to place it in a cool air flow, or at least just an air flow, like in front of a desktop fan, maybe. This is rare because Belgium is not exactly a hot country.)

It's amazing how much room you have inside: 2 M2 slots, 2 Sata slots, 1 optical drive, 2 wireless slots (for wi-fi + 4g, for example), 2 RAM slots in addition to the fixed onboard RAM, ... Externally, it has plenty of connectors (4xUSB3), an expresscard slot... And some extra stuff I don't even recognize.

I've expanded mine to 40Gb (8Gb soldered from factory + 2x 16Gb expansion), but I suppose you could go higher.

It's solid, hence quite bulky and heavy (no substitute for an ipad ;)), but nothing a backpack can't handle. It's also splash-proof (I've used mine under light rain, but that's only because I'm crazy - I don't recommend it, seriously)

Driver wise, it's very stable under Windows 10. Picture quality, if you care about that, is beautiful, and professional enough for occasional image work. Battery life is amazing and charging is very quick.

I have only two complaints about it:
- It has an NVidia GPU, known to cause incompatibility issues with some hardware - espacially the A&H Qu-series, and that's a shame. But it works fine with RME stuff, which is what I mostly use. (ATI GPUs can present such issues too, but have better reputation overall.)
- The onboard speakers and phone jack are a bit too quiet. This seems to afflict all Lenovo products.

Before that, I had a Dell Precision Something-or-other. Quite bulky too, quite good too, with just less pleasant a display - but it was years ago, when laptop displays weren't as good as now. I would still have it if it were better supported by Linux (I do everything that is not music under Linux, with a dual boot).

Before that, I had a 2015 Macbook Pro, and it was crap.

Before that, I had a 2005 Macbook Pro, and it was great.

Before that, I had a lame HP Pavilion - but all laptops were lame back then.
Click to expand...

I got a 2014 DELL Workstation! Maybe it was the same line. It is huge, heavy, metal casing, i7 with expandable RAM up to 32 gb. I think the one I bought might have sat on some asssistant's desktop, with hardly ever doing anything but light browsing. The thing is pristine and more than good enough for me. The only disadvantage is its weight, but I rarely use it anywhere else.
 
The latest laptops have really made a fully mobile setup possible. I got a Dell Precision 7530 a few months back and it runs at 20 ms latency with onboard audio and a pretty standard orchestral template along with 3-4 synths and a bunch of typical effects (eq, reverb, a few compressors). It has 64 GB RAM and 5 TB of NVME storage across three drives. I wouldn't get a laptop with SATA storage these days - takes up too much space.

Jay is right that desktops are still better bang for the buck but laptops have caught up in terms of workflow. In terms of my workflow and music, a current-gen laptop is basically as good as the best desktops from ~3 years ago. There's really not much you can't do with a laptop these days.

Plus everything is internal now. You can cram 6 TB of drives into a 15" laptop and get 20 ms latency with onboard audio, so no external audio interface (fine for composing). I think 15" is the sweet spot - you can go smaller but then you probably need external drives and you're really not very portable any more. And 15" will work if you're stuck with the indignity of a seat in coach. And 64 GB is pretty easy now - 32 GB is really tight if you're doing orchestral work but 64 GB is very workable.

Regarding USB - I don't think you'll see a difference between 3.0 and 3.1. Plus you're much better off with internal drives.

rgames
 
Ashermusic said:
Factually wrong. A 2019 iMac 27" has a 3.6 GHz Intel Core i9-9900K while the MacBook Pro has a 2.4 GHz Intel Core i9-9800K. The iMac can have up to 128 GB as opposed to 16 GB in the MacBook Pro. And the very expensive iMac Pro is even more powerful.
Click to expand...
The current Imac 27 2019, so the high end before the Imac Pro, can only support a maximum of 64 GB and not 128 GB, unless I am mistaken?
correct me if im wrong.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom