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Universal Production Music dropping labels

Imagine that the 3rd party label has a track which is, let's just say, exactly the same as the track UPM has in sound and feel.

Well then UPM want their own track licensed so they get double the royalties. They don't want the 3rd party label track competing with their own.

Does that help?
Going with this... what if each track is tagged with different metadata (because each company uses different methods for tagging), so both tracks wouldn't always pop up for the same searches. Removing one song doesn't mean the other gets used, there's so many variables for that to happen. I understand your logic though, if only production music searches were that straight forward.
 
Going with this... what if each track is tagged with different metadata (because each company uses different methods for tagging), so both tracks wouldn't always pop up for the same searches. Removing one song doesn't mean the other gets used, there's so many variables for that to happen. I understand your logic though, if only production music searches were that straight forward.
yea I'm trying to help the other guy understand the general point, not get into the fine detail.

I imagine UPM doesn't want a massive bloated catalog with e.g. more than half of it being tracks they only get 25% performance royalties.

By removing the bloat:

- Clients feel like the whole catalog is quality and consistent
- Focus redirected to in house labels earning 50% share for UPM

I don't think it's that surprising
 
Id thought so, i just dont know exactly how for example APM actually promotes anything if its just a aggregator.
And seems like a lot of what sony and warner do as well. On the production side at least. Its just like a Pond5 or adobe but in the non royalty free side. Its up there in a browser with some metadata. It be onething to not take new tracks but dumbing labels overall is kinda odd. Their back end might be sending that catalog to tv shows so editors use those and get synergy between business units but i really dont know.
They are continually in contact with programme makers, hussling for sync...so nothing like Pond5
 
Yeah, I would think they are going to produce music with AI inhouse, moving along, using the catalog they own 100% rights to, for the training.

That way, they will have more music and 100% rights to boot.

So, if the markets are oversaturated now..
 
Yeah, I would think they are going to produce music with AI inhouse, moving along, using the catalog they own 100% rights to, for the training.

That way, they will have more music and 100% rights to boot.

So, if the markets are oversaturated now..
Lol. Production music is already over. There's not much left for AI to take.
 
I noticed a fairly large chunk of labels at Universal Productionmusic being pulled lately.

Including A-List, Nuvotone, Score Addiction, Atomic Overture, X-Ray Dog and GUM.

BTW, just for clarification, a music publishing insider told me APM, UPM, etc. are not technically "dropping" labels, but simply chosing not to renew contracts for labels that under-perform or have become redundant.
GUM Tapes (for which I have worked for more than 10 years) did not disappear (and will not) and is now distributed by Kaptain (a publisher emanating from the french TV channel TF1).

As Nekujak mentionned, the 6-year distribution deal with GUM was expiring in april but Universal chose not to renew it, for a reason I cannot disclose in public (especially given that I'm not supposed to know). This reason is very specific to GUM, has nothing to do with AI and does not explain why the other labels have been pulled off. The only thing I can tell you is that GUM Tapes was performing VERY well at Universal. Financially, neither Universal nor GUM had an interest not to renew the deal.
 
Yeah, I would think they are going to produce music with AI inhouse, moving along, using the catalog they own 100% rights to, for the training.

That way, they will have more music and 100% rights to boot.

So, if the markets are oversaturated now..
If...do you have evidence that they are? Certainly in the US there is a premium on well produced tracks, that are not sample based, and the AI is not replacing those any time soon. Now if you were talking about the low end of Audio Jungle for example, then you would have a point.
 
Lol. Production music is already over. There's not much left for AI to take.
Where do you take that from? Advances from a productionmusic label have literally taken me out of a homeless facility (no kidding at all) as a 24 year old guy only starting to take it seriously for maybe a half year by then. That's a specific and lucky situation of course, but not entirely. There are not too few labels (although not many either I think) that have good or great upfront deals, sometimes at the expense of royalties/sync.

And there are lots of composers making a very good living from royalties etc right now. I know someone who was doing music for decades, even worked on larger movie productions etc and only made a living in the last few years because of royalties.
So, where do you take this debbie-downer attitude from to discourage people from this business?
What's the backing that production-music is "over"?
There are also lots of larger labels that literally have submission invitations on their contact pages. Universal, WarnerChappell, Westone, AudioNetwork - just to name a few.
If they wouldn't listen there would be no point in inviting spam. So there clearly "is" a way to get in if the material holds up. It's so ridiculously easy to at least get a chance at this (of course just a "chance", doesn't mean they will be interested, but that's true for every good opportunity), and those are some of the biggest labels.
I also would be really surprised if the larger labels start using AI for their music. It's probably gonna turn into a trademark and sign of quality to "not" use AI, just like it's the case with samples vs live recordings, despite samples being at a point where the average person will struggle to discriminate between a well-done mockup and a recording.
 
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Where do you take that from? Advances from a productionmusic label have literally taken me out of a homeless facility (no kidding at all) as a 24 year old guy only starting to take it seriously for maybe a half year by then. That's a specific and lucky situation of course, but not entirely. There are not too few labels (although not many either I think) that have good or great upfront deals, sometimes at the expense of royalties/sync.
And there are lots of composers making a very good living from royalties etc right now. I know someone who was doing music for decades, even worked on larger movie productions etc and only made a living in the last few years because of royalties.
So, where do you take this debbie-downer attitude from to discourage people from this business?
What's the backing that production-music is "over"?
There is still money to be made from Production Music, but it really is all about distribution. If you don't have that, it really doesn't matter how good your music is. Certainly, it's not like it was 20 years ago, but at that time there weren't so many companies undercutting the established ones, and technology couldn't make up for lack of ability, at the lower end of the scale. Of course that's not to say that this will always be the case, but certainly at the moment there is a thriving Production Music sector.
 
If...do you have evidence that they are? Certainly in the US there is a premium on well produced tracks, that are not sample based, and the AI is not replacing those any time soon. Now if you were talking about the low end of Audio Jungle for example, then you would have a point.
I don't have evidence, no, but it's reasonable to assume that labels will explore every avenue possible atm..

But I believe you're right about the lo-hi end distinction.

 
GUM Tapes (for which I have worked for more than 10 years) did not disappear (and will not) and is now distributed by Kaptain (a publisher emanating from the french TV channel TF1).

As Nekujak mentionned, the 6-year distribution deal with GUM was expiring in april but Universal chose not to renew it, for a reason I cannot disclose in public (especially given that I'm not supposed to know). This reason is very specific to GUM, has nothing to do with AI and does not explain why the other labels have been pulled off. The only thing I can tell you is that GUM Tapes was performing VERY well at Universal. Financially, neither Universal nor GUM had an interest not to renew the deal.
Sounds like a personal falling out, or maybe some lawsuit or something then. I wonder what it is
 
Where do you take that from? Advances from a productionmusic label have literally taken me out of a homeless facility (no kidding at all) as a 24 year old guy only starting to take it seriously for maybe a half year by then. That's a specific and lucky situation of course, but not entirely. There are not too few labels (although not many either I think) that have good or great upfront deals, sometimes at the expense of royalties/sync.

And there are lots of composers making a very good living from royalties etc right now. I know someone who was doing music for decades, even worked on larger movie productions etc and only made a living in the last few years because of royalties.
So, where do you take this debbie-downer attitude from to discourage people from this business?
What's the backing that production-music is "over"?
There are also lots of larger labels that literally have submission invitations on their contact pages. Universal, WarnerChappell, Westone, AudioNetwork - just to name a few.
If they wouldn't listen there would be no point in inviting spam. So there clearly "is" a way to get in if the material holds up. It's so ridiculously easy to at least get a chance at this (of course just a "chance", doesn't mean they will be interested, but that's true for every good opportunity), and those are some of the biggest labels.
I also would be really surprised if the larger labels start using AI for their music. It's probably gonna turn into a trademark and sign of quality to "not" use AI, just like it's the case with samples vs live recordings, despite samples being at a point where the average person will struggle to discriminate between a well-done mockup and a recording.
I mean what I am basing it on is the perspective of multiple 'top' composers in the production music world who are very worried about how much their income has dropped. When I say top, I mean like $200k/year. They are all telling me the same thing, and I have noticed it myself too. Their incomes are down 50% or more in some cases.

- The market is completely saturated.

- The subscription model is destroying revenue for everyone.

- Streaming royalties are the end of performance royalties and streaming services are taking a larger and larger share.

None of this has anything to do with AI and has been a long time coming.

Go ahead and submit a link to those 4 companies you listed and let me know when they listen to it.

Also, are your performance royalties enough for you to survive by?

Go and see the thread just last month on how much BMI royalties have dropped for everyone. The writing is on the wall.
 
I mean what I am basing it on is the perspective of multiple 'top' composers in the production music world who are very worried about how much their income has dropped. When I say top, I mean like $200k/year. They are all telling me the same thing, and I have noticed it myself too. Their incomes are down 50% or more in some cases.

- The market is completely saturated.

- The subscription model is destroying revenue for everyone.

- Streaming royalties are the end of performance royalties and streaming services are taking a larger and larger share.

None of this has anything to do with AI and has been a long time coming.

Go ahead and submit a link to those 4 companies you listed and let me know when they listen to it.

Also, are your performance royalties enough for you to survive by?

Go and see the thread just last month on how much BMI royalties have dropped for everyone. The writing is on the wall.
Yea, there is a difference between "productionmusic is dead" and "money is getting shorter".
Really don't know how you think this is a defence for your statements.
I'm not surprised that things are getting tighter and tighter. I'd be more than happy with 30-40k a year so if that's achievable by doing music with a relatively high amount of freedom compared to other music industry branches I'm all in. In the worst case I'd have to increase quantity of my output, but since dramatic dips certainly don't happen over night there would be time to work on that.

And no, till my royalties reach a very high amount I don't even focus on them (the 2k every BMI quarter are a nice "unexpected" helper, but I don't count on it and ignore it overall) and live from upfronts and advances, which are being offered by a good amount of labels. These payments can range between 200-600 or more euro so when being lucky enough to get into such labels it's a good way to bridge the performance royalties waiting time. Could of course be that the deal gets changed or lowered, so probably best to diversify.
 
People who are convinced that AI is already gutting production music should watch the webinar below... It's the opposite. AI is going to raise the bar so to speak, (significantly), but the demand for incredibly high quality production music isn't going anywhere for now...

 
Yea, there is a difference between "productionmusic is dead" and "money is getting shorter".
Really don't know how you think this is a defence for your statements.
I'm not surprised that things are getting tighter and tighter. I'd be more than happy with 30-40k a year so if that's achievable by doing music with a relatively high amount of freedom compared to other music industry branches I'm all in. In the worst case I'd have to increase quantity of my output, but since dramatic dips certainly don't happen over night there would be time to work on that.

And no, till my royalties reach a very high amount I don't even focus on them (the 2k every BMI quarter are a nice "unexpected" helper, but I don't count on it and ignore it overall) and live from upfronts and advances, which are being offered by a good amount of labels. These payments can range between 200-600 or more euro so when being lucky enough to get into such labels it's a good way to bridge the performance royalties waiting time. Could of course be that the deal gets changed or lowered, so probably best to diversify.
Up to you, I'm not going stop you.

My point is that it took these composers 15-20 years of writing to get to a good stream of royalties, and in the space of 1 year it's been halved, with the prospects looking even more bleak: like 70% down, not 50% down. They already have the contacts. They've already written for the best companies. They've already learned the craft. And now they're f*****

So if I was thinking about starting out now, I'd probably do something else.
 
There is no doubt the business of production music is experiencing some core transformations, and where it's all leading still remains to be seen. Evidence and arguments exist that support both optimistic and doom & gloom scenarios.


Let's start with the foreboding stuff...

ROYALTIES & THE ECONOMY
The most troubling sign has been the recent sharp decline in royalty payments. No one seems to know exactly why this is occurring. I've heard that likely culprits include subscriptions, royalty free libraries, and low streaming royalties.

But there's also another possible contributing factor - the economy. I've heard rumblings that some clients have been late in paying sync fees and royalties. If I were to guess, I'd say this is a direct result of the current economic downturn. Businesses across the board are suffering right now and media companies are no exception.

Here's a list of some prominent media companies and the number of employees they've laid off in 2023:

Amazon Studios/Prime: 100
AMC: 200
BuzzFeed: 180
The CW: 40
Dick Clark Prod: 15% of workforce
DirecTV: 1000
Disney: 7000
NBCUniversal: amount unknown
Netflix: 550
NPR: 100
Showtime: 120
Paramount: 100
Roku: 200
SiriusXM: 45
Spotify: 600
Vice media: 100
Vimeo: 1200
Warner/Discovery: 700

And of course, there have been tens of thousands off employees laid of by tech companies such as Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc... Mass layoffs are a last resort for most organizations, and laying off 5% or more employees is a drastic move and a clear indicator of financial trouble.

Layoffs are a result of reduced revenues, and a big chunk of revenue for most of these companies comes from advertising. I've read reports that advertising spending is down across the board. This means fewer ads and commercials are being produced.

All of this eventually trickles down to us composers. Not only are music payments impacted by financially struggling media companies, but also from advertisers who are spending less on ads.

I suppose the good news in all this, is that economic downturns are usually temporary and not indicators of long term devastation. So as the economy recovers, hopefully it will extend down the line to media composers.

GENERATIVE AI
Looking a little further down the road, there is the spectre of AI-generated music. Like it or not, it's going to happen. All it takes is for AI-generated music to secure a few prominent placements, and people will suddenly be open to the idea that it's feasible, and the dam will burst wide open. In fact, for all the media companies and advertisers who are struggling in a financial bind, AI-generated music could help improve their bottom line by eliminating royalty payments and sync fees.

Human-generated music won't go away, but AI is likely to encroach on a lot of existing music opportunities. Bear in mind, generative AI is constantly improving. Right now it's in its primitive stages, but there are people working round the clock constantly improving it. There's big money behind it, betting on its success.

COMPROMISED LICENSING
Subscription models, direct licenses, gratis licensing, and royalty-free libraries are the other unavoidable factors in reducing composer revenue. Unfortunatley, there's not much that can be done about it. Let's just hope the UPMs, APMs, KPMs of the world continue to court the big players and secure lucrative licenses.


Okay, that was all the doom & gloom stuff... what about the positive side of things?

PRODUCTIONS CONTINUE
Although media companies may be going through financial pains, broadcasts still continue and shows and movies will still continue to get made - all of them backed by substantial budgets. The entertainment industry is generally immune to the ups and downs of the overall economy. So while individual music payments might be down, opportunities for music licensing should continue to be available.
----edit----
Unfortunately, this may not be entirely true. See my next post for some articles that paint a more grim picture :sad:

POSTIVIE OUTLOOK
I'm consistently hearing messages of optimism and positivity from publishers and labels. So regardless of economic conditions and the threat of AI-music, music insiders seem to have a confident outlook for the future of production music. Perhaps they're being blind to certain realities, or don't want to acknowledge the business is in trouble, but the messages I'm getting are all very positive.

Let's hope they're right :thumbsup:
 
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Here are some articles describing the money woes faced by film/TV production companies. The industry is definitely feeling pain, and some of that will naturally trickle down to composers. Music licensing will likely continue to take a hit for the remainder of 2023.

https://www.axios.com/2023/03/21/analysts-streaming-spend-production-slowdown-2023
The number of new, original scripted series may start to shrink this year or next after hitting a record high in 2022, analysts warn. The amount spent on new content will also slow or contract for most of the traditional entertainment companies.

https://movieweb.com/hollywood-executives-prepare-for-the-worst-2023/
Decline in viewership across the industry remains a crux in Hollywood's financial woes, and a potential writer's strike increases uncertainty.

https://www.thewrap.com/commercia-production-declines-los-angeles-filmla-challenges/
A recent decrease in shooting in the industry’s home city was largely driven by a drop in advertising work.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/may/02/thousands-of-hollywood-film-and-tv-writers-to-go-on-strike
Hollywood productions have ground to a halt after thousands of film and television writers went on strike following the breakdown of last-minute pay talks with major studios.
 
There is no doubt the business of production music is experiencing some core transformations, and where it's all leading still remains to be seen. Evidence and arguments exist that support both optimistic and doom & gloom scenarios.


Let's start with the foreboding stuff...

ROYALTIES & THE ECONOMY
The most troubling sign has been the recent sharp decline in royalty payments. No one seems to know exactly why this is occurring. I've heard that likely culprits include subscriptions, royalty free libraries, and low streaming royalties.

But there's also another possible contributing factor - the economy. I've heard rumblings that some clients have been late in paying sync fees and royalties. If I were to guess, I'd say this is a direct result of the current economic downturn. Businesses across the board are suffering right now and media companies are no exception.

Here's a list of some prominent media companies and the number of employees they've laid off in 2023:

Amazon Studios/Prime: 100
AMC: 200
BuzzFeed: 180
The CW: 40
Dick Clark Prod: 15% of workforce
DirecTV: 1000
Disney: 7000
NBCUniversal: amount unknown
Netflix: 550
NPR: 100
Showtime: 120
Paramount: 100
Roku: 200
SiriusXM: 45
Spotify: 600
Vice media: 100
Vimeo: 1200
Warner/Discovery: 700

And of course, there have been tens of thousands off employees laid of by tech companies such as Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc... Mass layoffs are a last resort for most organizations, and laying off 5% or more employees is a drastic move and a clear indicator of financial trouble.

Layoffs are a result of reduced revenues, and a big chunk of revenue for most of these companies comes from advertising. I've read reports that advertising spending is down across the board. This means fewer ads and commercials are being produced.

All of this eventually trickles down to us composers. Not only are music payments impacted by financially struggling media companies, but also from advertisers who are spending less on ads.

I suppose the good news in all this, is that economic downturns are usually temporary and not indicators of long term devastation. So as the economy recovers, hopefully it will extend down the line to media composers.

GENERATIVE AI
Looking a little further down the road, there is the spectre of AI-generated music. Like it or not, it's going to happen. All it takes is for AI-generated music to secure a few prominent placements, and people will suddenly be open to the idea that it's feasible, and the dam will burst wide open. In fact, for all the media companies and advertisers who are struggling in a financial bind, AI-generated music could help improve their bottom line by eliminating royalty payments and sync fees.

Human-generated music won't go away, but AI is likely to encroach on a lot of existing music opportunities. Bear in mind, generative AI is constantly improving. Right now it's in its primitive stages, but there are people working round the clock constantly improving it. There's big money behind it, betting on its success.

COMPROMISED LICENSING
Subscription models, direct licenses, gratis licensing, and royalty-free libraries are the other unavoidable factors in reducing composer revenue. Unfortunatley, there's not much that can be done about it. Let's just hope the UPMs, APMs, KPMs of the world continue to court the big players and secure lucrative licenses.


Okay, that was all the doom & gloom stuff... what about the positive side of things?

PRODUCTIONS CONTINUE
Although media companies may be going through financial pains, broadcasts still continue and shows and movies will still continue to get made - all of them backed by substantial budgets. The entertainment industry is generally immune to the ups and downs of the overall economy. So while individual music payments might be down, opportunities for music licensing should continue to be available.
----edit----
Unfortunately, this may not be entirely true. See my next post for some articles that paint a more grim picture :sad:

POSTIVIE OUTLOOK
I'm consistently hearing messages of optimism and positivity from publishers and labels. So regardless of economic conditions and the threat of AI-music, music insiders seem to have a confident outlook for the future of production music. Perhaps they're being blind to certain realities, or don't want to acknowledge the business is in trouble, but the messages I'm getting are all very positive.

Let's hope they're right :thumbsup:
That's a whole lot of doom... and a little footnote of vague hope
 
That's a whole lot of doom... and a little footnote of vague hope
I know it certainly looks that way, but there are a couple of key factors to consider:

I should've mentioned that 2022 was a record year in terms of production music licensing. I need to find the article again, but I recently read that 46% of music used by TV and commercials in 2022 was library music. That's an impressive number, indicating a healthy appetite for library music among media producers.

Second, it's important to bear in mind the current financial difficulties experienced by media production companies are largely due to the overall downturn in the economy. Everyone's hurting right now, across the board. But unless some unforeseen calamity engulfs the planet, this downturn should be temporary, and business will once again pick up for everyone.

So there is light at the end of the tunnel, but there will invariably be some shakeups and changes along the way. 2023 is likely to be a very bumpy year for media composers, but it's not the end of the world as we know it.

----edit----
Found the article:
 
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There's some big time hyperbole going on in this thread. Yes, times are tough and the production music industry only gets harder to make a dent in as time goes on. But calling it "dead" is just misinformed, inflammatory nonsense.

I know plenty of people quietly making a living in production music. The only general downturn I've seen in royalties has been this past quarter (though it stayed about the same for me) from BMI. But there are always ups and downs. After 8 years it's still been an upward trend for me. If people who've been in the game for 15-20 years are struggling, there's a good chance they're either not writing new music anymore and trying to coast, or they're still stuck in some older way of doing things and not adapting to newer standards and expectations of the industry.

Again, I do acknowledge that it just keeps getting harder due to saturation, accessibility of music tools, and executives trying to constantly save money by squeezing budgets - but most of that is just general capitalism things that are happening across all kinds of industries.
 
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