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Understanding the fundamentals of an Orchestral Template

I think most of us have work horses - libraries and patches we use over and over again. Always setting them up can be frustrating when you have an idea and immediately wants to keep going with it. So I get that part. Saving time is great.

What I don't get is why people deem it necessary to have a ginormous template covering every possible inch of an orchestra. My personal approach is that I want my foundations but not much more. Is it really time saving to have a gazillion tracks/folders/mix buses? I doubt most composers, either hobbyist or professionals, write that many scores with every part of the orchestra. If you feel comfortable browsing through that insane template then hey, all the power to you. Go ahead. Personally I do not want cluttered DAW just in case I need a patch with 2 flutes. If I really need that solo viola I'll set it up.

Templates is for the core. Not the whole damn thing.
 
That works too, yes. It all depends on how one learns. I need to see things and experiment with them to understand. Kinda like studying scores.

I build and sell templates/macros for others so I'm quite well-versed in the subject. Something I see from some of my clients is that the issue is not the template per say to start getting working quickly but the DAW knowledge that is lacking. Sometimes, just seeing something turns into a lightbulb moment like "oh, I didn't know that Cubase could send the dry signal to multiple busses pre-fader."
Absolutely, I am relatively new to Cubase 13 pro being a Studio One use previously. I am still trying to get to know it, it's chock full of stuff.
 
I think most of us have work horses - libraries and patches we use over and over again. Always setting them up can be frustrating when you have an idea and immediately wants to keep going with it. So I get that part. Saving time is great.

What I don't get is why people deem it necessary to have a ginormous template covering every possible inch of an orchestra. My personal approach is that I want my foundations but not much more. Is it really time saving to have a gazillion tracks/folders/mix buses? I doubt most composers, either hobbyist or professionals, write that many scores with every part of the orchestra. If you feel comfortable browsing through that insane template then hey, all the power to you. Go ahead. Personally I do not want cluttered DAW just in case I need a patch with 2 flutes. If I really need that solo viola I'll set it up.

Templates is for the core. Not the whole damn thing.
I feel like that's what I am running into and started adding everything but the kitchen sink only to find out I am using 78% of my 32g memory and I haven't written anything yet o_O

I am curious about making a template for one Library at a time? I have BBCSO Core, Areia, Nucleus, and Kontakt CE which gives me the Symphony Series, so I would have a base template with piano's and such and then only one library say BBCSO to write with?
 
So this is my basic template with all the help in this thread (and Guy Michelmore)
Understanding the fundamentals of an Orchestral Template
 
Your first major decision is "track per articulation " OR "I will use keyswitching"

Have you decided that yet ?

best

ed
As per Guy Michelmore, he seems to like individual articulation which maybe why the ram is getting a beating. I have never used key switching, looks labor intensive but I am willing to learn if it stream lines the process and recourses.
 
As per Guy Michelmore, he seems to like individual articulation which maybe why the ram is getting a beating. I have never used key switching, looks labor intensive but I am willing to learn if it stream lines the process and recourses.
So...It won't make a huge difference in RAM as you still will be hosting the same no of instruments , just more midi channels that take up nothing.

If you are doing Orchestral music you'll need a basic triple wind set up. Brass and Strings and Perc. If your using keyswitches that's about 40 instruments with 40 midi channels. Per articulation it's about 400.

best

e
 
I really enjoyed the Trevor Morris series on templates. In this video:


He has everything and the kitchen sink in his template, but they're all disabled tracks so the project loads quickly. He keeps a few tutti ensembles enabled on start to get going quickly. He then assigns the key command 'e' to enable a track and 'shift+e' to disable it if it's not what he wants.

For strings he uses Cubase expression maps so he can have e.g. one track for each string section instead of single articulations. For other sections he uses 1 articulation per track. That''s just something you'll have to play around with to see which way you like to work.

Here's the other 2 parts of his series. Worth watching even if you like your templates.
Part 1:
Part 2:
 
I really enjoyed the Trevor Morris series on templates. In this video:


He has everything and the kitchen sink in his template, but they're all disabled tracks so the project loads quickly. He keeps a few tutti ensembles enabled on start to get going quickly. He then assigns the key command 'e' to enable a track and 'shift+e' to disable it if it's not what he wants.

For strings he uses Cubase expression maps so he can have e.g. one track for each string section instead of single articulations. For other sections he uses 1 articulation per track. That''s just something you'll have to play around with to see which way you like to work.

Here's the other 2 parts of his series. Worth watching even if you like your templates.
Part 1:
Part 2:

AMAZING, what a difference disabling the tracks make, I really appreciate the post.
 
So Guy's answer is to make a track for each articulation.
How on earth do you actually work with this? If you have, say, one Violins I part and 8 articulations, that means 8 Violins I MIDI tracks (if I've understood you correctly), so the Violins I part is spread out among 8 different editing windows. Sure, most if not all DAWs allow you to visualize multiple editing windows at once, but AFAIK you can only have one selected for editing at a time.

And how to you print the sheet music so that it comes out as a single Violins I part?
 
How on earth do you actually work with this? If you have, say, one Violins I part and 8 articulations, that means 8 Violins I MIDI tracks (if I've understood you correctly), so the Violins I part is spread out among 8 different editing windows. Sure, most if not all DAWs allow you to visualize multiple editing windows at once, but AFAIK you can only have one selected for editing at a time.

And how to you print the sheet music so that it comes out as a single Violins I part?
I think both of the limitations you mentioned are just things you have to live with. I suspect that most people working with that setup are only using a small number of articulations for each instrument. As you can see from that video Guy is only using legato, longs, and shorts.

The other alternative is to setup articulation maps. But the biggest problem with that is that if the native track delay isn't equal between articulations, then the timing will be wrong. That can be avoided in DAWs like Digital Performer or the new Cakewalk Sonar which let you assign different delays to different articulations.
 
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You are getting a lot of terrific advice here, @Rossy . You have to make some decisions about how to proceed early on, and you might not yet appreciate the pros and cons of those decisions until you get to working with a particular library or as you develop your workflow in general. Many of these pros and cons are agnostic with regard to your DAW, but some of the strategies are a little more DAW specific. Since you are on Cubase, you have the advantage of disabling tracks which, as you have learned, saves you a ton of RAM. You can also "hide" unused tracks which allows you to have things preconfigured, but not cluttering your workspace - having your cake and eating it too, so to speak. You also have the advantage of saving groups of tracks preconfigured (as with other DAWs) but not all of the routing is saved and quite frankly I have not figured out how to write a script to do that, as @robgb has.

Another major decision is to have one track for each articulation vs one track for one instrument with all of that instrument's articulation, as @ed buller mentioned. This is not DAW specific, but an important decision because it affects how you route and how you write. I personally would love to write with one instrument (e.g. violin) per track, but I find that many libraries have different negative track delays for different articulations (e.g. a pizzicato may require a much shorter negative track delay than a legato). So if you want to stay on the grid (which I prefer since it is easier to make edits such as lengthening the B section of a piece, etc.), what negative track delay value do you use? The pizzicato or the legato? Do you split the difference? Do you nudge notes? I find that the compromises to these are annoying and very problematic for some libraries. Check out the negative track delay sticky in the sample talk section by @David Kudell. Watch his video if you have not! I did not appreciate how important this issue was when I started, but it makes a world of difference.

You will always make a compromise about this one way or another, but for me I have a bit of a hybrid approach. I typically use three negative track delays per instrument (e.g. violin) and therefore have three tracks for a given instrument: shorts, longs, legato, and I use my own articulation maps within each of those groups (to switch, say, between pizzicato and staccato both of which are in my "shorts" track). I divide shorts and longs since these almost always have very different negative track delay values and it means that I compromise timing a little less at the expense of having three tracks instead of one single one for an instrument (but I am not in one articulation per track land either). And remember that with Kontakt instruments, you can disable articulations you do not need, so you are not dogging your RAM that way if you are smart about it. Some people also like routing shorts and longs to different amounts of reverb and that has that advantage too.

Some really great videos have been recommended. Since you use Cubase, I'd also recommend two other people to watch: Anne Kathrin Dern has terrific tutorials on her YouTube channel. In addition to the high quality of her work and her clear teaching style, she uses Cubase and explains her decision making in her videos. She has a three part series on building a template that begins with this video. I do not use VEP Pro (yet) so some of this may not apply, but seeing how she organizes things is key. The other two videos will probably help you a little more, but I appreciated all three. Note that she is a track per articulation kind of person. Another set of videos that you will find helpful are from @MarcusD (a.k.a. PoundSound). He also uses Cubase and also has a three part series about template building using Kontakt, beginning with this video. What I particularly appreciated about this series is that he shows you a few different ways to approach template building, but more importantly, he discusses the pros and cons of each one. He also discusses some various approaches to routing, which is another major decision that you will need to make early on in your build. Add to all of this that there is variation between different libraries.

Oy vey! It can be like a full time job, as @danstein mentioned. Maybe some people like that sort of thing, but not me. Still, I think that you should grapple with some of these issues sooner than later, because you will grapple with them either way but will spend less time if you grapple with them sooner. But once you get a handle on that, you can make music more efficiently without tech getting in the way. Isn't making music what this is all about??
 
But the biggest problem with that is that if the native track delay isn't equal between articulations, then the timing will be wrong
Are there really libraries that have different delays depending on the articulation? How can you even create a track with keyswitch if you always have to deal with this inconsistency ? (I only use Audiobro libraries, and I don't even imagine this kind of issue tbh)
 
Hi Rossy,

This is a mammoth question and there is no definite answer to it. For ages I used the BBCSO template (switching out instruments and categories as needed) - just taking the time to pick it apart (it was made by Jake Jackson who kind of knows what he's doing!) and understand the routing helped me immensely. I then took that and made it my own.

The use of groups (or busses), sends to reverbs, sends to stems that can be printed, a mix bus and perhaps a further master bus before going to the stereo out are things I have come across in most templates I have seen others use. Getting to grips with this signal flow really helps, and allows you to then tweak your own template as you see fit. Don't forget that a template is not just for composing but also for mixing and even mastering, and all that can be done in a single file - experiment and try to set up your plugin chain to mix and master efficiently.

The thing is I don't think you can make a template and forget about the whole template thing forever. It's something that you improve over time based on your experience with it. You might get some new libraries or reverbs that you want to add to it for example, or just workflow things that you want to change. I think of it kind of like building an instrument that you like to play.

It seems you're not wanting to spend crazy amounts of time on this which is good. Start with something basic, write some stuff, improve the template, write more stuff, etc...

What DAW are you using?

Good luck in any case !
 
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