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Tried the new NI S88 Mark 2. Keyboard still doesn't feel good.

jononotbono

Luke Johnson
Why not just get the Studiologic SL88 Grand as it has the TP40WOOD action and is quite a bit cheaper than the Doepfer?
That is pretty much the plan as of now. I think I'll get a NI S61 mk2 so I can have a synth action and on the rare occasion use the light guide as well. A secondary keyboard. Shame, I so wanted to love the new S88. Nevermind.
 

zolhof

Active Member
Regarding dual vs triple sensor, here's a quick comparison with audio clips.

I wouldn't worry too much about sensors when comparing two manufacturers. For example, we had the Kawai ES110 (dual sensor) and the Casio PX-160 (triple sensor) here at the studio - both decent budget keyboards - and to my fingers the Kawai felt significantly better. Now, within the same manufacturer, that's a whole different story. If money isn't a thing, imho the Kawai MP11 is your best pick for the action alone. Keep in mind that the Kawai is a digital piano at heart, so don't expect faders, knobs, etc. For MIDI purposes, I'd look at the Physis K4, it's a beast.



And just to make you even more confused, check this list of keyboard actions.
 

jononotbono

Luke Johnson
Regarding dual vs triple sensor, here's a quick comparison with audio clips.

I wouldn't worry too much about sensors when comparing two manufacturers. For example, we had the Kawai ES110 (dual sensor) and the Casio PX-160 (triple sensor) here at the studio - both decent budget keyboards - and to my fingers the Kawai felt significantly better. Now, within the same manufacturer, that's a whole different story. If money isn't a thing, imho the Kawai MP11 is your best pick for the action alone. Keep in mind that the Kawai is a digital piano at heart, so don't expect faders, knobs, etc. For MIDI purposes, I'd look at the Physis K4, it's a beast.



And just to make you even more confused, check this list of keyboard actions.
Thanks. I've not considered the Physis K4 yet.
 

Lee Blaske

Senior Member
FWIW, I've been playing on my Mk2 for a day, and it already feels better (faster). Maybe it just takes a couple of days of playing to get all that silicone grease out of the way a bit.
 
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Headlands

Active Member
FWIW, I've been playing on my Mk2 for a day, and it already feels better (faster). Maybe it just takes a couple of days of playing to get all that silicone grease out of the way a bit.
Interesting! Maybe I'll pick one up and try - it's a 30-day guarantee so I can give it that long to see. Might be worth the tradeoff to get the lighting guides and DAW/NI integration.
 

Lee Blaske

Senior Member
FWIW, I've been playing on my Mk2 for a day, and it already feels better (faster). Maybe it just takes a couple of days of playing to get all that silicone grease out of the way a bit.
Just another update on this... With every passing day, the keyboard is feeling more and more like the original version of the S88. The smooth, damped, quiet, viscous feel is gone. The keyboard is getting faster in the way it responds, but it now has similar mechanical noise to the original S88. I really wish it was quieter, but I guess that's just how these Fatar actions are built.

Sure would be nice if they offered a higher-end model. I'd be willing to pay an extra $1000 to have a keyboard like the one in the Kawai VPC1, or even something that's just as good as the keyboard in a Yamaha Motif or Korg Kronos.
 
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Headlands

Active Member
Just another update on this... With every passing day, the keyboard is feeling more and more like the original version of the S88. The smooth, damped, quiet, viscous feel is gone. The keyboard is getting faster in the way it responds, but it now has similar mechanical noise to the original S88. I really wish it was quieter, but I guess that's just how these Fatar actions are built.

Sure would be nice if they offered a higher-end model. I'd be willing to pay an extra $1000 to have a keyboard like the one in the Kawai VPC1, or even something that's just as good as the keyboard in a Yamaha Motif or Korg Kronos.
Thanks for the update. It's just a crap lower end Fatar keybed, as you said -- there's no way around it. I'd be willing to pay more, too, but it is what it is. I'll just need to decide which way to go here.
 

EvilDragon

KSP Wizard
Depends on what you need from an action. Both are compromise actions so that different things can be played without breaking your fingers (TP40 especially, is a very good compromise between piano, organ and synth actions). And consindering NI's portfolio, they cannot be going for the most realistic piano action on 88-key, since it's not that it's piano libraries all they offer...
 
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Headlands

Active Member
Depends on what you need from an action. Both are compromise actions so that different things can be played without breaking your fingers (TP40 especially, is a very good compromise between piano, organ and synth actions). And consindering NI's portfolio, they cannot be going for the most realistic piano action on 88-key, since it's not that it's piano libraries all they offer...
I hear you. I think, as I said, that for me it just doesn't do anything that well. I personally don't need/want a totally accurate piano feel, but the clunky mushy feel of the S88 mark 2 was a disappointment when I tried it. I might end up with one because of the other functionality, though...and hope that it lightens up as Lee said it does.
 
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Geoff Grace

Senior Member
If I correctly recall the discussion at Keyboard magazine's forum, then the assertion was that the new S88 MK2 is too light to contain a T/40, leaving the T/100LR as the most likely keybed.

The best guess at Keyboard magazine's forum is that it's the Fatar | TP/100LR—not exactly a beloved action.
Perhaps I should look more into this to see whether that person was right.

Best,

Geoff
 

Brian2112

Active Member
Yup. Got mine. Feels mushy.
But being the nutcase that I am, I like the mush! I think this is the first keyboard I’ve had with aftertouch so I’m jazzed about that. Big screens are great (I’m old and blind now even though I use a 47 inch display.). Works great with Cubase. Very inconsistent and glitchy in VE Pro. Sometimes the browser/mappings work, sometimes not. Bummer no Studio One support yet.
Also just got a Roland TD17 KVX kit because I was tired of finger drumming anyway.:grin:
 
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Headlands

Active Member
Yup. Got mine. Feels mushy.
But being the nutcase that I am, I like the mush! I think this is the first keyboard I’ve had with aftertouch so I’m jazzed about that. Big screens are great (I’m old and blind now even though I use a 47 inch display.). Works great with Cubase. Very inconsistent and glitchy in VE Pro. Sometimes the browser/mappings work, sometimes not. Bummer no Studio One support yet.
Also just got a Roland TD17 KVX kit because I was tired of finger drumming anyway.:grin:
Thanks for reporting. Got mine on Saturday, am in the studio today to set it up. Not happy about hearing it being glitchy with VE Pro, because that's what all of my Kontakt libraries are in when composing. That really sucks actually. Will report back after I get it hooked up.

I decided to go for it because the tradeoffs seemed worth it...but they 100% need to make it totally VE Pro compatible or it won't be worth it for me. I'll write both NI and VE Pro and make sure that's in the works, otherwise I'll need to send it back.
 
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Iostream

Member
Thanks for reporting. Got mine on Saturday, am in the studio today to set it up. Not happy about hearing it being glitchy with VE Pro, because that's what all of my Kontakt libraries are in when composing. That really sucks actually. Will report back after I get it hooked up.

I decided to go for it because the tradeoffs seemed worth it...but they 100% need to make it totally VE Pro compatible or it won't be worth it for me. I'll write both NI and VE Pro and make sure that's in the works, otherwise I'll need to send it back.
I have not experienced glitches with VE Pro on the local host, but it doesn't work with slaves. Then again, neither does any other controller in that sense. I would love to see that functionality added, but I am not sure how likely it is to happen.
 

jononotbono

Luke Johnson
I have not experienced glitches with VE Pro on the local host, but it doesn't work with slaves. Then again, neither does any other controller in that sense. I would love to see that functionality added, but I am not sure how likely it is to happen.
If VSL added this functionality to VEPro I think you’d see these Kontrollers fly of the shelf (regardless of what the keybed feels like).
 

Iostream

Member
If VSL added this functionality to VEPro I think you’d see these Kontrollers fly of the shelf (regardless of what the keybed feels like).
I think it requires code changes from both NI and VSL actually. I am not sure how likely it is to happen, people have been asking since the original controllers came out.
 
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