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Top 10 Cubase Features New to a Logic X Composer

OP
Breitenbach

Breitenbach

kaganbreitenbach.com
My biggest issue still is and likely will always be that Cubase just does not perform as well as Logic Pro X on Apple systems. Again and again I have tested this and have the exact same results.

I would not mind sticking with Windows if setting up MIDI Ports was as simple as in macOS, since I have two iPads
Wow fascinating! Do you have the data available on this?

It makes sense that Logic would be the best optimized DAW for Apple computers, but I'm curious how much better it is.

Also, perhaps you are the person to answer my long standing question... do the bars on the CPU monitor in Logic really corresponds to individual Cores, or did I make that up in my head? If they are, Logic does do a great job of distributing processing across cores.
 

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Shad0wLandsUK

Senior Member
Wow fascinating! Do you have the data available on this?

It makes sense that Logic would be the best optimized DAW for Apple computers, but I'm curious how much better it is.

Also, perhaps you are the person to answer my long standing question... do the bars on the CPU monitor in Logic really corresponds to individual Cores, or did I make that up in my head? If they are, Logic does do a great job of distributing processing across cores.
https://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=123595
A little info I found on your question regarding core distribution :)

And
 

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Vik

Scandi Member
You can send a few tracks to a new project by either ‘export selected tracks’, then create a new project and import those.
Yes, like audio or MIDI files, but I'm talking about (for instance if you work on one song and get an ide for a new one) selecting a few audio and or MIDI/VI tracks and save them as a new project with one click. I miss that often.

"As far as track disable, the best I can come up with is to turn off the track. But I’m not sure this reduces memory." It doesn't reduce memory, neither sample memory or Kontakt memory. Cubase's Disable does this.
fixed note length, quantize ends, fixed velocity, etc. would be awesome to have as stock key commands in Logic.
Assign key commands to these then:
Screen Shot 2018-08-03 at 22.55.10.png



And definitely, the freezing/disable is an awesome feature! It wasn't part of my regular workflow, but it's a fantastic feature to have
We are many who think that this would be great to have in Logic!
 

Vik

Scandi Member
Assign key commands to these then
Using these key commands:
Screen Shot 2018-08-03 at 22.58.11.png

The exception is KCs for note lengths. Logic should IMO have this without needing to make them up for each length in Transform and then assign LC to these presets. There should be other ways to change note lengths as well, eg by selecting a note/notes and clicking on a symbol for eg 1/16 note with a modifier.
 
OP
Breitenbach

Breitenbach

kaganbreitenbach.com
Yes, like audio or MIDI files, but I'm talking about (for instance if you work on one song and get an ide for a new one) selecting a few audio and or MIDI/VI tracks and save them as a new project with one click. I miss that often.

"As far as track disable, the best I can come up with is to turn off the track. But I’m not sure this reduces memory." It doesn't reduce memory, neither sample memory or Kontakt memory. Cubase's Disable does this.

Assign key commands to these then:
View attachment 14667




We are many who think that this would be great to have in Logic!
Wow fantastic! I didn't know this was possible. I've always just had to manually pop open that editor from the drop down menu, chose the operations, then apply it. I didn't realize those could be made in to key commands. I'm going to do this! Great information. One key stroke vs. multi-steps. Hopefully Logic will make more comprehensive MIDI editing key commands default next update.
 

samphony

Senior Member
There are many threads comparing Logic and Cubase out there, and your post is interesting - but I'm not sure if the comparison is quite fair. I totally agree with those who say that Logic has been lagging behind in terms of development for MIDI composers for many years (there are some improvements in 10.4.*), but what you wrote here, for instance isn't entirely correct:

You could have folders in folders in folders since version 1 I think, and you don't need a summing stack for that.

Here are, btw, some of the other threads comparing the two, in case you are interested:
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/the-most-important-differences-between-logic-and-cubase-for-use-with-sample-libraries.61884/
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/logic-to-cubase-switchers-any-issues-share-experiences.59354/page-2
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/942729-cubase-better-composing-logic-better-song-writing.html
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/1074900-what-would-i-miss-if-i-ditched-logic-cubase-2.html

Regarding key commands - how many key commands does Cubase actually have?
Re "I never completely figured out an optimal way to tempo map in Logic". IMO the Beat Mapping function in Logic is excellent, and easy to use.

Re. this:
"“scale vertically”, “tilt left/right”, and “scale around absolute center” are incredibly useful, fast, and easy. Not to mention, all of those editing features are available on other controller lanes too, not just velocity."
Sounds interesting. I have Cubase actually, but there has been too many things I miss from Logic for me to really get started learning/using it properly.

And, if I'm not mistaken, Cubase's Logical Editor is a copy of Logic's good old Transform window.... but Logic needs a built in and super easy way way to create macros and assign key commands to them - AND more MIDI/composing related key commands.
You can create macros with the old and well established OS addons or the iPad based tools like metagrid or lemur/Touch osc. Elgato streamdeck allows macros too. With macOS 10.14 you might be able to use Siri commands which is the workflow app known from iOS on the Mac.
 

samphony

Senior Member
But I can’t get any love trying to export from an aux if it’s an fx return being fed from a bus. I seem to have to bus that aux to an audio track and activate the input monitor, THEN I can output the sound. Freakin bummer. Maybe I’m doing something wrong, but the LUG forum had a discussion about this and that’s what I read there as well. Show me the error of my ways, I’d be delighted to be be wrong
Create a track in the tracks view for that AUX. then use the pencil or control click into the track lane of that aux and create an empty midi region. Now try to bounce that region or export with other tracks.
 

S.M Hassani

CodeUltra Sounds
Here's a video demonstrating LPX AUX bounces:


And if you need even more key commands: (Works for most MacOS Apps including ProTools)


All about Freezing tracks in LPX:

 
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Vik

Scandi Member
nd if you need even more key commands: (Works for most MacOS Apps including ProTools)
Thanks for sharing that - that's something i didn't know. But the real problem in Logic isn't lack of key commands, but lack of commands... because many of the things I miss don't exist as menu commands either.

Besides - why on earth is there no simple way to combine key commands in the key commands window? I know there are ways to make macros, and that Transform can be useful and all that. But I've had a very high number of situations where I'm either working on getting down an idea or tweaking one, where I have ended up looking for how to do things instead. And once you need to go in and tweak the workflow instead of tweaking your ideas - at least for me - the creativity flow is easily broken.

Music is a right brain-half thing (unless you're left handed), and working with macros and importing stuff, googling for solutions or sending feedback to Apple about missing functionality is a left brain-half thing.

My guess is that there's no people inside the developer team who works with music in ways where the need for the typical composing related key commands we often talk about here are needed - so if they see such a suggestion from Logic's feedback feed, they don't see why it is important. That's maybe why it took Apple 10 years more than Steinberg to implement an Expression Maps equivalent, and that's why something as basic (extremely basic, I'd say) as implementing a KC for forcing a note that you have selected to become, say, a 1/16 note doesn't exist after soon 30 years of development. I've sent feedback to Apple about that three or four times over the years, and nothing has happened.

And while the Transform window was a great idea in the early years - because users somehow could "implement" functions that wasn't already implemented in Logic - the least thing you want to do when being creative is to stop the flow and sort out how to create a software function that Logic doesn't have.

Inspiration is kind of sacred to composers, because it leads to better music. But software tweaking moves the focus into something very different than trying to create some bars of something beautiful.

Due to Steinberg's increased (over Apple) focus om things like notation (Dorico), Expression Maps and composing related commands, they have more 'composers' in the user base than Apple/Logic, in the traditional definition of composers (os opposed to eg beat maker or even sonf writer). As a result of that, they have gotten more requests for the kind of functions I miss in Logic and implemented some of them.

Apple, OTOH, is more focused on being "democratic", as in 'what most people want' (to buy). So it has more focus on loop based music and 'songwriting'... stuff which implies that one just records chords with guitar or piano/keyboard rather than the more 'composer' oriented way of working.

I think that's why Logic develops the way it does, and actually also to some degree explains why so much commercial music out there still is so.... 'plain', in lack of a better word.
 
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Saxer

Senior Member
I think that's why Logic develops the way it does, and actually also to some degree explains why so much commercial music out there still is so.... 'plain', in lack of a better word.
So you seriously think that pop music is more 'plain' today because of some missing controller lanes or missing macros? Logic isn't really a loop based and electronic specialized DAW. Most of the included plugins and sounds are more 'traditional' than in any other DAW. Even the score editor beats Cubase score window by far and also the number of possible key commands. Might change one day if the try to integrate Dorico but that's still far away.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see some more midi editing features (though I don't really miss them myself) and macros. I just think Logic isn't a more typical dancefloor/hip hop/songwriter DAW than Cubase at all. There are other examples like Bitwig and Ableton.
 

dgburns

summer of pickles and IPA beer
Create a track in the tracks view for that AUX. then use the pencil or control click into the track lane of that aux and create an empty midi region. Now try to bounce that region or export with other tracks.
Ok wow - Thanks for this.
 

dgburns

summer of pickles and IPA beer
Hey wow this is good stuff!!! I had no idea there was a way to have keystrokes alter those midi attributes.

What do you mean when you say "Logic allows for objects to populate the environment but not populate the arrange". I guess I'm greener in Logic than I thought.

I'd love to see a screen shot of what you've figured out with folder nesting because I've struggled with that for a long time.
Nested folders only works with the ‘old school folder’ objects, obviously not the track stacks. So you can have a folder within a folder (and more). But the difference is that a folder can be any given length, and nested folders can be shorter in length then the encapsulating folder it sits in. I’ve sometimes run into issues where I had ‘too many folders deep’ errors, so it maybe pays to be careful not to go too nuts with the feature.

One aspect of the old school folder is that you can move it up and down the arrange page and screensets will still recall properly into that folder if you saved a screenset to view the contents. You can also have stuff in a folder, nested within another folder, but it’s content is not visible at the topmost level in the arrange. This can get confusing if you’re new to the concept. But it’s a powerfull way to work if you’re comfortable with it. So long as you have a firm grasp of your environment layout. It’s the brains of the whole operation.

In Cubase, DP and Protools, if you remove a track from the arrange page, it’s gone (whatever the term is for the arrange page in those apps). In Logic, that object CAN still live on in the environment. This can also cause alot of housecleaning to be done to remove unused objects, but it can also be really useful if you’re a Logic environment ninja. (there are quite a few here at VI Control). Plus there’s a command to select unused objects anyway in the environment.

So you can have an object in the environment, say audio object 100 which exists but is not present in the arrange. You need to have Logic not automatically manage environment objects however. Why is this useful? Well you could have a single midi object that is cabled to two or more instruments that are in the environment, but you only have the midi object visible in the arrange. More and more we are moving away from the disconnect between the arrange and the environment.

Underused stuff in Logic in the environment? One that is brilliant is the touch tracks. You can grap a whole bunch of midi tracks (better yet, put those in a folder) and fire the sequence off by one single note on your keyboard. Have 20 or more midi sequences you want to play with a la Ableton Live? sure can, on one track payable by midi. But you need all those sequences present in the project. Using the old school folders allows you to have them present but hidden away and muted off.

Another less used feature is to do a ‘split screen’ screenset where you have more then one arrange page open, one above the other and you can see stuff from both. Why do this? maybe one is where you record your audio, the other where you have your midi, or organize librairies by folder. Track stacks have kinda moved us away from this approach, which is decidedly LPX V9 thinking, but it still has its uses (at least for me)

just some thoughts
 

Vik

Scandi Member
So you seriously think that pop music is more 'plain' today because of some missing controller lanes or missing macros?
Not at all... that's not what I'm saying. :) Those who make "plain" (still in lack of a better word, and I have nothing against simple, but good songs) probably don't use macros or CC lanes much anyway. But I do believe that if it's easy to create pro sounding music of "type A" in a DAW (or in DAWs in general) and not an equally good set of tools in that DAW to create pro sounding music of Type B, it will be easier for him to create Type A music, and this will increase the chance that he does exactly that.

"Loop based" vs not loop based, and electronic vs non-electronic both has to do with arranging. I'm mainly thinking of composing. And I'm not (mainly) comparing Logic with other DAWs. I have more or less exclusively used Logic since it was released.

I am comparing Logic - the way it has developed - with how it could have developed.

And the topic I'm talking about is that Logic's development, for the last circa 10 years, changed it focus in terms of what kind of development that was given most attention. When Logic X was released there were a few nice improvements (Track Stacks?), but pretty much none of the major wishes from score guys and "normal" composers (vs "chord-playing" composers) which was discussed on Logic Pro Help and other forums where implemented.

Regarding "Most of the included plugins and sounds are more 'traditional' than in any other DAW."
Logic has gotten more interesting loops, I guess, and also is better for those who prefer the kind of stuff "Drummer" does. But if we shall focus on two main ways of making music, where "A" which is about writing lines instead of playing chords or guitar or synth/keyboard/piano, and also being richer harmonically that what the kind of chords people who don't know much about harmony usually come up with - and so on:
Logic has mainly focused on making it easer for group B and those who maybe don't know much about composing/harmonies to end up with good results... and not so much on improving the workflow for those who need more composing oriented tools.; group A.

It has been a lot easier for someone - who either is too lazy to learn something about harmonies and about making great music, or isn't interested enough - to end up with results that sound good and 'pro'.

But score users and the more harmony-based guys still struggle with some of the old bugs from Logic 1. Simple chords are spelled with wrong accidentals, and notes with four chords are sometimes shown with only three notes in the score editor - and so on. Many functions that would be great to have in Logic haven't been implemented as of 2018 - 25 (more?) years after its release.


"Even the score editor beats Cubase score window by far and also the number of possible key commands." That's possible, I haven't tried the score editor in Cubase yet. I have tried Dorico, and it is in many ways good - but has another kind of limitations than Logic: for instance, it can't record MIDI, last time i checked it took 9 steps to reassign a key command and so on. But at least: Steinberg "bought" the Sibelius team. So - Avid has Pro Tools and Sibelius, Steinberg has Cubase and Dorico, and Apple has Logic and a long list of 10+ year old wishes that hasn't been implemented.

When Cubase integrates properly with Dorico, it could - at least in theory - become a very good package with a much more Apple-like workflow. But I have no idea whether that's what they are trying to do. But at least - Steinberg as a company is the company who has invested the most in making something new and better for score users in this century. Kudos for that. And it wasn't only lack of macros and missing CC lanes that was troublesome when I, a few years ago, again started to dive into the world of Kontakt libraries. *Some* of that has been improved in Logic 10.4, so maybe there's hope.

To sum it up: the team around Logic decides *what kind of music* they will help users get a better workflow. And - just like with Apple Music - the main focus has been on pop culture.

Btw, let's rather continue the discussion, if needed (about Logic's potential for improvement) in another thread maybe? Here are some:
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/the-most-important-differences-between-logic-and-cubase-for-use-with-sample-libraries.61884/
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/how-can-logic-become-better-at-controlling-ccs-and-articulations.54546/
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/why-doesnt-logic-read-these-css-parameters.60131/
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/top-9-problems-with-cubase-9-from-a-logic-x-user.63728/
 
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OP
Breitenbach

Breitenbach

kaganbreitenbach.com
Here's a video demonstrating LPX AUX bounces:


And if you need even more key commands: (Works for most MacOS Apps including ProTools)


All about Freezing tracks in LPX:

Wow that additional key command menu in system preferences is a big deal. Not just for Logic, but as an Apple user. Can't wait to take advantage of this. Thanks for the info.
 
OP
Breitenbach

Breitenbach

kaganbreitenbach.com
Thanks for sharing that - that's something i didn't know. But the real problem in Logic isn't lack of key commands, but lack of commands... because many of the things I miss don't exist as menu commands either.
Besides - why on earth is there no simple way to combine key commands in the key commands window? I know there are ways to make macros, and that Transform can be useful an all that. But I've had a very high number of situations where I'm either working on getting down an idea or tweaking one, where I have ended up looking for how to do things instead. And once you need to go in and tweak the workflow instead of tweaking your ideas - at least for me - the creativity flow is easily broken. Music is a right brain half thing (unless you're left handed), and working with macros and importing stuff, googling for solutions or sending feedback to Apple about missing functionality is a left brain half thing.

My guess is that there's no people inside the developer team who works with music in ways where the need for the typical composing related key commands we often talk about here, so if they see a suggestion about from Logic's feedback feed, they don't see why it is important. That's why it took Apple 10 years more than Steinberg to implement an Expression Maps equivalent, and that's why something as basic (extremely basic, I'd say) that implementing a KC for fording a note that you have selected should become, say, a 1/16 note doesn't exist after soon 30 years of development. I've sent feedback to Apple about that three or four times over the years, and nothing has happened.

And while the Transform window was a great idea in the early years - because user could "implement" functions that wasn't already implemented in Logic to some degree - the least thing you want to do when being creative is to stop the flow and sort out how to create a software function that Logic doesn't have. Inspiration is kind of sacred to composers, because it leads to better music. But software tweaking moves the focus into something very different than trying to create some bars of something beautiful.

Due to Steinberg's increased (over Apple) focus om things like notation (Dorico), Expression Maps and composing related commands, they have more 'composers' in the user base than Apple/Logic, in the traditional definition of composers (os opposed to eg beat maker or even sonf writer). As a result of that, they have gotten more requests for the kind of functions I miss in Logic.

Apple, OTOH, is more focused on being "democratic", as in what most people want (to buy). So it has more focus on loop based music and 'songwriting'... stuff which implies that one just records chords with guitar or piano/keyboard rather than the more 'composer' oriented way of working (which still can be used for arranging/writing commercial music of course).

I think that's why Logic develops the way it does, and actually also to some degree explains why so much commercial music out there still is so.... 'plain', in lack of a better word.
Totally agree with a lot of this!
 

Living Fossil

Senior Member
I've never completely understood why, but even when I'm just trying to render in place a single track, clicks and pops would still occur at tempo changes.
Logic doesn't produce clicks and pops per se at tempo changes.
Maybe you had some synced delays which usually produce glitches when the tempo changes?
 

dgburns

summer of pickles and IPA beer
Actually You don’t have to create an empty midi region. You can just export aux track in arrange window. Select aux track in arrange window_File_Export_1Track as Audio File.
Can you confirm this works for you when outputting multiple tracks, as in a mix of audio and aux tracks?
 
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