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Toontrack Black Friday and Holiday Deals

Time+Space

Senior Member
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SirkusPi

Member
I do think EZDrummer 2 is pretty tremendous (for non-drummers like me), but unfortunately the EZX promotion apepars to exclude all of the newer sets, and I already have all of the older ones that I'm interested in, so I guess I'll sit this one out and hope the next sale will be more expansive.
 
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Time+Space

Time+Space

Senior Member
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I do think EZDrummer 2 is pretty tremendous (for non-drummers like me), but unfortunately the EZX promotion apepars to exclude all of the newer sets, and I already have all of the older ones that I'm interested in, so I guess I'll sit this one out and hope the next sale will be more expansive.
Into the Dark is part of the sale, but yes, you're right. Quite a few of the newer ones are excluded from this sale unfortunately
 

Ray Toler

Member
I was hoping to "buy into" SD3 this Black Friday together with "Hansa" and "Decades" SDX's; has to wait till next year, I guess...
Same - SD3 has been on my "will buy next sale" list since I missed the last sale by just a day or two (2019? Can't remember). On the plus side, every year they don't put it on sale, I learn Stylus just a little deeper. ;)
 

Oxytoxine

Active Member
I don't know whether it's the right place to ask in the "Deals" thread (please delete if not).

I have EZDrummer 2 and some expansions (AOF Ballads, Jazz, Hard Rock, UK Pop, and some others I forgot the name of). While I generally like the sound and handling of EZdrummer a lot, I am not that positive on the midi expansions. To be honest, most of the midi files (both the ones that are included and the ones that come with the EXPs) seem very generic, way too robotic and "simplistic" to me. So I bought some expansions, but still the same - I can use these for basic pop / rock songs, but not for most other genres (given the popularity of Toontrack, I am aware that this obviously is not the mainstream perception - but still reflects my personal experience).

Especially the Jazz one - I really wonder who can use that, as it really can't hold a candle to other more Jazz focused drums (like e.g. Manhattan drums and others).

Then also got the full midi files pack of Groovemonkee and some of Oddgrooves - some are good, but most are again way too basic (of course, as always: in my very personal perception).

So my question would be: has someone maybe upgraded from EZDrummer 2 to SD3 and could say whether the included midi files are "better" (more finesse) or, if they are the same as in SD3, somehow unfold more "magic" in SD3 because they can trigger more samples / velocity layers etc.?

I ask because I consider either upgrading to SD3 or to completely jump ship.
 

kindafishy

New Member
Is this sale specific to Time+Space, or will Toontrack be doing other sales for this BF? I was hoping to see more significant discounts. Maybe need to wait for xmas or boxing week for better deals?
 

sumskilz

Active Member
I don't know whether it's the right place to ask in the "Deals" thread (please delete if not).

I have EZDrummer 2 and some expansions (AOF Ballads, Jazz, Hard Rock, UK Pop, and some others I forgot the name of). While I generally like the sound and handling of EZdrummer a lot, I am not that positive on the midi expansions. To be honest, most of the midi files (both the ones that are included and the ones that come with the EXPs) seem very generic, way too robotic and "simplistic" to me. So I bought some expansions, but still the same - I can use these for basic pop / rock songs, but not for most other genres (given the popularity of Toontrack, I am aware that this obviously is not the mainstream perception - but still reflects my personal experience).

Especially the Jazz one - I really wonder who can use that, as it really can't hold a candle to other more Jazz focused drums (like e.g. Manhattan drums and others).

Then also got the full midi files pack of Groovemonkee and some of Oddgrooves - some are good, but most are again way too basic (of course, as always: in my very personal perception).

So my question would be: has someone maybe upgraded from EZDrummer 2 to SD3 and could say whether the included midi files are "better" (more finesse) or, if they are the same as in SD3, somehow unfold more "magic" in SD3 because they can trigger more samples / velocity layers etc.?

I ask because I consider either upgrading to SD3 or to completely jump ship.
They are no different in approach than those meant for EZdrummer 2, and for good reason in my opinion. They're meant to be able to be dropped into anyone's composition and still work. In fact, as someone who worked as a session drummer for over a decade, I would say the vast majority of them are a bit too busy compared to what I would normally play. Which is okay, because each set (verse, chorus, etc.) includes at least one very stripped down variation.

That said, you mentioned jazz, a genre in which drummers can get quite busy, albeit subtly and with finesse so as to support and interact with the soloist rather than steal the show. Even then, I think you might have unrealistic expectations, because what a drummer plays is almost always dictated by interplay and interaction, which I can't see really working in a drag and drop into the track manner. Although, I don't doubt that you've had some success with that, maybe with another product, but I think it would be real hit and miss, with a lot more of the latter.

Of course, easy for me to say, I'm a drummer so if I use the MIDI it's just as a placeholder for composition purposes. Meaning, I never have to search for the perfect drum MIDI for my track.

EDIT: One advantage of SD3 though, is that you can try out everything in the MIDI expansions before you buy.
 
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NekujaK

Boar on the Floor
They are no different in approach than those meant for EZdrummer 2, and for good reason in my opinion. They're meant to be able to be dropped into anyone's composition and still work. In fact, as someone who worked as a session drummer for over a decade, I would say the vast majority of them are a bit too busy compared to what I would normally play. Which is okay, because each set (verse, chorus, etc.) includes at least one very stripped down variation.

That said, you mentioned jazz, a genre in which drummers can get quite busy, albeit subtly and with finesse so as to support and interact with the soloist rather than steal the show. Even then, I think you might have unrealistic expectations, because what a drummer plays is almost always dictated by interplay and interaction, which I can't see really working in a drag and drop into the track manner. Although, I don't doubt that you've had some success with that, maybe with another product, but I think it would be real hit and miss, with a lot more of the latter.

Of course, easy for me to say, I'm a drummer so if I use the MIDI it's just as a placeholder for composition purposes. Meaning, I never have to search for the perfect drum MIDI for my track.

EDIT: One advantage of SD3 though, is that you can try out everything in the MIDI expansions before you buy.
Thank you for this, because as a complete non-drummer, I've always thought drum MIDIs were excessively busy when compared to the drum parts I hear in actual recordings. In fact, more often than not, I end up "thinning out" drum parts after dragging the MIDI into the sequencer. Less is usually always better when it comes to drums - they're typically not intended to call attention to themselves.

And agree that MIDI can only provide a close approximation at best, when it comes to jazz. I've spent a lot of time in the company of jazz players, and one of my favorite things is watching skilled jazz drummers do their thing. It's always a one-of-a-kind performance that, as you pointed out, is solely based on the live interaction between the players. Drag-n-drop MIDI will never give you that.
 

rroc

Active Member
Alright, that puts SD3 off the list here too. And I was hoping for a good deal on EZBass. Maybe next time!
 

hag01

Active Member
Anyone can tell how long will Toontrack sale going to last?
 
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Oxytoxine

Active Member
Thanks for your input and taking the time to answer! Sorry for the late response - we had an emergency in the family and I could not check VI-C in the last few days.

Interesting to read your perspective on this. I fully agree with many of your points (re too high expectations, that just dropping a MIDI file will per se never be able to recreate a human drumming performance, and that often the MIDI clips are rather too complex and have to be thinned out etc.).

However, in the case of jazz drums, this does not reflect my experience, as other products for me (as always, subjectively) clearly allow for way more realistic results (especially for hihats, cymbals etc. - I don’t know why, but for the best of me I can not program them convincingly in EZ2, while it works way better in other plugs, and some have even fantastic MIDI clips, whereas the ones I got from Toontrack are - again: for me! - disappointing), but I realize that I should prove that with some sound clips.

This would however (very understandably) probably not be OK in a thread about Toontrack, and I in no way want to „badmouth“ it. As mentioned: I like it very much for other styles and really just wondered whether the MIDI expansions are and work the same in SD3 as in EZ2 or wether they somehow sound much better in SD3.

So it’s time then to move on for me, but maybe I’ll „upgrade“ to SD3 anyway for the more „conventional“ stuff to get more control over the mixing in the plugin itself. Thanks again for your opinions!
 
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