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Thoughts on OT Berlin Strings

ProfoundSilence

Senior Member
It took Play how long to not suck? Spitfire player isn't horrible, but it doesn't yet have the same functionality of Kontakt even in basic usage—not even talking about wavetable synth, etc. Just given that history we shouldn't be surprised if it takes several iterations for OT to get its sample player right. We already know what OT's priorities are when forced to choose between comprehensiveness and conservation of computing resources. Their new player may allow them to defer that choice longer but I really don't see that changing when confronting a situation that requires a real trade off between competing priorities.

I also haven't seen anything from OT about its sample player since it was announced. Maybe you have privileged information, maybe OT will defy the odds of software development and deliver exactly what they promised and more. But I very much doubt it. Best guess is people will be disappointed in missing features/strange feature implementation in the player and at how expensive the individual instruments turn out to be when purchased outside the library. In any case everything now is just speculation, and my skepticism will hopefully be proved wrong.
would absolutely love insider info, I just assume its goals would be third priority, whereas I felt like SF built a player to stop paying NI and also make piracy harder. OT are more or less mock up oriented. plus they seem to be eyeing that piecemeal purchasing strategy, so it i don't think it's not without some monetary motivation.

as it stands, OT has the best sampling without the best scripting, even if it's not bad - kontakt is kind of hurting it.
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
as it stands, OT has the best sampling without the best scripting, even if it's not bad - kontakt is kind of hurting it.
I agree with this and am sincerely hoping they will be able to solve the issues because I do like the sound of Berlin Strings and would like to use them more often. They have just proved difficult to work with if I want any other instruments loaded. (I haven't tried them since upgrading to 64GB, but I had to do a lot of freezing at 32GB, and that was just with the main BS library.) I also think sample players are harder to develop than it seems, so I have doubts OT will get it right on their first attempt. As I've said, I hope OT does manage to get it right immediately, but I don't think the odds are high, seeing how other companies have struggled.
 

Land of Missing Parts

flibbertigibbet
I do find it surprising that OT doesn't offer (non-measured) string trills beyond HT/WT in their strings expansions. I guess you'd use the Symphonic Sphere, but the player count and setup isn't the same. Not a big deal, just a minor thing to note.
 

shawnsingh

Active Member
By the way, I'm curious if anyone knows. Was the development for Spitfire's player or for EWQL's Play done by in-house devs that are on their team long term, or were those players more like limited time contract work?

Is OT going to be doing this with an in-house dev team? It seemed like it from some videos I saw. That makes me more optimistic about its chances of success, like VSL's software. Even if they get off to a rocky start, with a dedicated in-house team, the long term prospects of this kind of sample player seem very positive.
 

ProfoundSilence

Senior Member
Well it is kind of a wait and see, I do not have any OT library's, this demo looks to be ground breaking.
Well for me, I think the biggest factor is them having experience(and using the libraries themselves) and creating a sampler with the purpose of the exact business they run. They work with A list composers who use their stuff in their templates, they know the samples have everything they need to sound amazing - while also having scripting as well as resource limitations due to kontakt.

And then look at spitfire libraries, which despite a decent orchestral run, the bulk of their success stems from (and I don't mean this in an insulting way) gimmicky keyboard patches. Their instruments aren't really designed to be virtual representations of instruments, but rather laid out like nice sounding keyboard patches. SSO was a bit of a departure from that, but it's simply not how they use it, how they market it, and how they feel. It's a large catalogue of cool keyboard textures and their sampler is probably designed around that artsy evo stuff more than it is perfecting an exposed solo flute.

Hoping this sampler is a solution for OT rather than a hinderance.
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
Well it is kind of a wait and see, I do not have any OT library's, this demo looks to be ground breaking.
If they can pull it off. I don't doubt that they'll get there eventually if they remain committed to it, and I like the ambition. But software development often takes much longer than anticipated and the lackluster record of companies making alternatives to Kontakt makes me think the task is far more complicated than it seems.
 

ProfoundSilence

Senior Member
If they can pull it off. I don't doubt that they'll get there eventually if they remain committed to it, and I like the ambition. But software development often takes much longer than anticipated and the lackluster record of companies making alternatives to Kontakt makes me think the task is far more complicated than it seems.

To be fair, I highly doubt any significant advancements will occur that suddenly make the samples from the berlin series outdated. Some extra samples would be nice in certain instruments, but all in all - it's all meticulously sampled material, that can be repackaged a billion times and still sound phenomenal.

Same goes for a lot of these big name sample libraries... I'm pretty sure cinesamples and the SSO stuff could be completely overhauled and stay relevant for decades.

VSL has trucked for quite some time despite not having the most appealing sound.

and honestly EW's HWO is actually pretty darn good still.

Great instruments in great rooms with great mics will always sound great
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
Hoping this sampler is a solution for OT rather than a hinderance.
Also, do they have sufficient income from their libraries to support this kind of software development over time?

To be fair, I highly doubt any significant advancements will occur that suddenly make the samples from the berlin series outdated. Some extra samples would be nice in certain instruments, but all in all - it's all meticulously sampled material, that can be repackaged a billion times and still sound phenomenal.

Same goes for a lot of these big name sample libraries... I'm pretty sure cinesamples and the SSO stuff could be completely overhauled and stay relevant for decades.

VSL has trucked for quite some time despite not having the most appealing sound.

and honestly EW's HWO is actually pretty darn good still.

Great instruments in great rooms with great mics will always sound great
agreed about the samples. I'm referring specifically to the time and cost of software development for a sample player.
 

barteredbride

Hello and hola...a Brit in Spain
If Berlin Strings (and other OT libraries) are migrating across to the new player, perhaps someone from @OrchestralTools could answer if the new player uses less RAM than Capsule/Kontakt?

I'm sure they must have done testing and so would know the figures.

What's the RAM usage loading up the basic multi patch (plus legato) of each section for V1 V2 Vi Celli and Basses?
 

novaburst

Senior Member
My understanding though I could be wrong, is the library's will be broken up and the purchase of just bits or part of a library would be available, so for strings perhaps just a legato patch, or sustain patch,

In this respect you can get lower ram use by purchasing parts of the library instead of the whole library.

VSL does something similar, you can go for a half section Violins and viola with limited articulation, or a full section,

As for the performance of the player it does seem to be offering some never seen before development the question is will this new improvement be ram and cpu hungry
 

whitewasteland

Senior Member
My understanding though I could be wrong, is the library's will be broken up and the purchase of just bits or part of a library would be available, so for strings perhaps just a legato patch, or sustain patch,

In this respect you can get lower ram use by purchasing parts of the library instead of the whole library.

VSL does something similar, you can go for a half section Violins and viola with limited articulation, or a full section,

As for the performance of the player it does seem to be offering some never seen before development the question is will this new improvement be ram and cpu hungry
That's not really how "lower RAM usage" works :) Of course if you load less stuff, you would use less RAM !

The question is more like "how much RAM a fully purged cello section would take" ? That is actually the worst part of OT with Kontakt today. This is something they really need to fix with the new player.
 
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