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There goes my sailing scholarship to Stanford...

douggibson

Active Member
I know plenty of people who went to Yale/Harvard/Penn etc. Some are really smart, some are just entitled brats, these are the ones who generally work the fact that they went to an ivy league school into the first paragraph or two of any conversation.

I don't want to comment too much on the politics, other than to say this is a big +1 for music conservatories.

I have also noticed in my time being a judge, and also when going to summer music festivals (i.e Aspen) that certain prestigious universities (some IVY league) produced composers where it was
eyebrow raising. In some cases they just seemed lost. Other schools had a wide range. NYU in particular is like this. I have seen some really good composers from there, and then some shocking examples.

My point is, Juilliard - Eastman - Curtis (Yale is actually a very wonderful music school) always have amazing students. Never met a single one from these conservatories I would call "lost".

I think it is because there is no way to hide, or delegate your work. Students at more research oriented universities can hire ghost writers (I'm guilty of writing a few term papers for people so I could pay my NYC rent when I was just starting out.)

But if you are a piano major...... you have to give a recital. There is going to be a panel of judges.... you have to put in the hard yards. It's also a much smaller school than a NYU/USC. The teachers are going to know everything you are up to.

So..... let's give conservatories some credit !!
 
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JohnG

JohnG

Senior Member
We've got youngsters who have racked up £ 50k worth of debt doing a degree in Gender Studies, or South American Pan Pipe Studies
Or worse! Music composition and poetry!

I tell my kids they are not going to advanced studies to make more money, but to enrich their lives. If life is merely a contest to accumulate wealth it's a complete waste.
 

Nick Batzdorf

Moderator
John, you and I have discussed this before, but the same kind of racket goes on all the way down with private schools - as far as grade school.

They'll take your application money, and then laugh: "What movie are you in?!"
 

chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
We've got youngsters who have racked up £ 50k worth of debt doing a degree in Gender Studies, or South American Pan Pipe Studies, wondering why the only job they can get is as a Barista. In the UK having a University degree when I was young really meant something.
Now, not so much.
£ 50k for a degree learning why 5 different restrooms are necessary for the removal of feeces and urine is cheap.

It’s more expensive here @ Harvard where the Accumulation of wealth might not be taught but its definately their goal.

Higher education costs are up 800% over the last 25 years.
No other sector has that steep of a profit margin.

It’s always about the money, even when they say it isn’t.

If I were to go to college again I want to major in women’s studies.
Pretty sure guys can have such degrees.
I don’t understand why women need to learn more about themselves.
But as a man these would be invaluable studies.
 

dzilizzi

I know nothing
I always tell kids going to college to get a business degree. No matter what you end up doing in life, it never hurts to have a basic understanding of management, marketing, accounting and finance. Especially if you end up as an artist where you have to set your prices, advertise, etc...

edit - I can spell, but I can't type....
 

Nick Batzdorf

Moderator
I always tell kids going to college to get a business degree. No matter what you end up doing in life, it never hurts to have a basic understanding of management, marketing, accounting and finance. Especially if you end up as an artist where you have to set your prices, advertise, etc...
Not bad advice.

While I'd never want to trade my Berklee education for anything - and the general ed classes were excellent - my advice to myself would be to focus even more on liberal arts in general, because 1. as John basically says, your intellectual development is an important part of who you are; and 2. who knows where the opportunities will be in 15 years.
 

dzilizzi

I know nothing
Not bad advice.

While I'd never want to trade my Berklee education for anything - and the general ed classes were excellent - my advice to myself would be to focus even more on liberal arts in general, because 1. as John basically says, your intellectual development is an important part of who you are; and 2. who knows where the opportunities will be in 15 years.
Wait, liberal arts....isn't that a lot of writing? I got an accounting degree so I wouldn't have to write a lot. Turns out my job is mostly writing. Sigh.

Generally, if you are really good at something and don't mind putting in the work, you can be successful at it. I've heard mixed things about Berklee, but I think a lot of it is either they aren't talented enough and/or they don't want to put the work in, because, you know, music is supposed to be fun and easy.

And? I'm a lifelong learner. I am always studying something. I think it is great to keep learning new things and you never know what will help you in the future. Taking that class on making the perfect cup of coffee may just get you the job...
 

chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
I want to major in Gender Studies at Reed College. Dr. Nira Cain-N'Degeocello, our nation's leading expert, is on the faculty.
That guy is hilarious. PBS has him on all the time.
He’s funnier than Sasha Cohen.

I like people like him, they know they aren’t liked by a majority of people, but they have their Schtick, and they’re sticking to it.

The more extremes we tolerate on both sides of the spectrum, the bigger the middle class becomes. Top down bottom up, chimuelo style...

Ankyu
 

dzilizzi

I know nothing
I've heard mixed things about everything.
LOL! I was thinking of taking some of their online classes, but they are a little pricey for someone who is not doing it for a career. Basically what I heard from students in my research was that if you took advantage of all the networking opportunities provided it was totally worth it. Otherwise, you might as well go to a state school with a good music program for a lot less.
 

Nick Batzdorf

Moderator
LOL! I was thinking of taking some of their online classes, but they are a little pricey for someone who is not doing it for a career. Basically what I heard from students in my research was that if you took advantage of all the networking opportunities provided it was totally worth it. Otherwise, you might as well go to a state school with a good music program for a lot less.
Shit. That means I wasted my money.
 

Nick Batzdorf

Moderator
Seriously... well, I don't know anything about the online courses. And while networking is important - you only get as far in life as your friends help you get - if that's your reason to go to any college, you have the wrong attitude.

But the main thing is that Berklee is an excellent music college, and what you get there is different from a traditional music program (I went there way before they bought Boston Conservatory). It's an immersive experience.

And when I was there, the academic classes were excellent. The only difference was that there weren't very many of them to choose from, compared to a regular college or university. But a lot of what I learned, especially in the poli sci classes, sticks with me every day.
 

D Halgren

Senior Member
W went to Yale and got an MBA from Harvard...
Just sayin.

All those bribes and not a single politician, really?

Oh, and I don't think I've ever seen a clearer case of entrapment. He offered them services while working for the FBI. They just took him up on it, cause they had the money to do it.
 
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dzilizzi

I know nothing
Seriously... well, I don't know anything about the online courses. And while networking is important - you only get as far in life as your friends help you get - if that's your reason to go to any college, you have the wrong attitude.

But the main thing is that Berklee is an excellent music college, and what you get there is different from a traditional music program (I went there way before they bought Boston Conservatory). It's an immersive experience.

And when I was there, the academic classes were excellent. The only difference was that there weren't very many of them to choose from, compared to a regular college or university. But a lot of what I learned, especially in the poli sci classes, sticks with me every day.
And this is where it comes back to what you are willing to put into it is what you will get out of it. I'm guessing not all of the people I talked to wanted to do the work. And I'm thinking I wouldn't get the immersive experience online, which may have been what they were trying to tell me.
 

chimuelo

Star Of Stage & Screen
W went to Yale and got an MBA from Harvard...
Just sayin.

All those bribes and not a single politician, really?

Oh, and I don't think I've ever seen a clearer case of entrapment. He offered them services while working for the FBI. They just took him up on it, cause they had the money to do it.
Good to know.
I don’t keep up with the latest, Im a week behind unless I DuckDuckGo something of interest. The rat bastard is trying to save his own skin. I hope he goes to jail, even if it’s only a few years.

I know this there’s wire fraud, mail fraud, bribery, etc.
But sending Lori Laughlin to jail will destroy her family and her children.
Right now they are really in bad shape, I’m not an apoligist but at that age suicide seems easier than to face the online mob.

I hope there’s some real dirtbags out there to satisfy the red meat carnivores.
Don’t destroy a family over non violent crimes.
 

Soundhound

Senior Member
In my early years in advertising it was always the people who had gone to business school, instead of learning the business hands on, who screwed everything up. Without fail. The extent of their assuming they knew everything was matched only by the extent of their screwing everything up because they actually knew nothing.


I always tell kids going to college to get a business degree. No matter what you end up doing in life, it never hurts to have a basic understanding of management, marketing, accounting and finance. Especially if you end up as an artist where you have to set your prices, advertise, etc...

edit - I can spell, but I can't type....
 

NYC Composer

Senior Member
But the main thing is that Berklee is an excellent music college, and what you get there is different from a traditional music program
And to think that while you were communing with the cognoscenti at Berklee, I was attending Holiday Inn University, up and down the Yeast Coast.
 
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